Criminal damage?

mima

I hope some of your legal-eagles my offer some insight.

I am in boundary dispute with a neighbor. It was agreed that we shall abide by a surveyors final decision but before any such decision and without any notice, the neighbor had installed a fence which I know is on my property.
Having previously warned them (in writing) that if thy do attempt to do so, I will immediately remove any such fence, I began to do so.
I have now been visited by a Constabulary (Safer Neighborhood Team) cautioning me that I had committed a criminal damage subject to £80 on the spot penalty.

Does not seem right!
:mad:

Many thanks in advance
Mike

DVardysShadow

The difficulty both ways is proving whether it was on your land or not. Did you accept the penalty?

bluebird

contact land registry and get a copy of your deeds this will clearly show the boundries.

princeofpounds

unfortunately PC plod knows little or nothing about housing and land law. I wouldn't be surprised if they got that wrong.

Try gardenlaw forums boundary forum, there are some experts there.

mima

DVardysShadow wrote: »

The difficulty both ways is proving whether it was on your land or not. Did you accept the penalty?

Hi DVardysShadow,

No, the officer said they did not want to press charges so it's a stale mate until the surveyors decision / advice.

Just wanted to know what the law is in this situation - assuming the fence is on my property?

Cheers

maninthestreet

It may be criminal damage, as the fence is (or was) the property of your neighbour. If someone parks a car on your land, you would be guilty of criminal damage if you damaged it.

princeofpounds

It may be criminal damage, as the fence is (or was) the property of your neighbour. If someone parks a car on your land, you would be guilty of criminal damage if you damaged it.

That's a fair point. You are typically allowed to dismantle and remove items, but not torch them or cut them up. What did you do?

ado

'A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence.'

Did you have a lawful excuse? You say the land is yours but your neighbour has erected a fence post there, so you remove it as it is on your land. To me you have a lawful excuse as the fence had been erected on what you say is your land. Secondly what exactly did you do to the fence? Did you destroy or damage it in any way. If you simply removed it without destroying it or causing damage to it the offence again seems not to have been completed.

I would imagine that the local police have been contacted by your neighbour who got their complaint in first, and that they are using the police to help settle the argument in their favour. As I have said I don't think a clear cut offence has taken place. I also think that as long as both parties have agreed to abide by the surveyors decision then the police don't have any part to play.

mima

ado wrote: »

'A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence.'

Did you have a lawful excuse? You say the land is yours but your neighbour has erected a fence post there, so you remove it as it is on your land. To me you have a lawful excuse as the fence had been erected on what you say is your land. Secondly what exactly did you do to the fence? Did you destroy or damage it in any way. If you simply removed it without destroying it or causing damage to it the offence again seems not to have been completed.

I would imagine that the local police have been contacted by your neighbour who got their complaint in first, and that they are using the police to help settle the argument in their favour. As I have said I don't think a clear cut offence has taken place. I also think that as long as both parties have agreed to abide by the surveyors decision then the police don't have any part to play.

Hi ado,
That was my gut-feeling that, in the circumstances, the police should have nothing to do with it.

I removed the 5 planks from the fence (fetheredge)about 8 foot high and placed them back on their property. Not possible to do so without some damage.

They did, indeed, complain. I saw them talking to the policeman before he came to see me.
I agreed not to do any more and he went back and asked the neighbors to do the same, until surveyors decision.

Cheers

Yorkie1

Reasonable excuse is defined generally as defence of oneself (or another) or one's property - generally taken to mean actual property rather than land.

In my view the defence of reasonable excuse is not established.

Even if it was, there is an element of proportionality involved. You must have done no more than was absolutely necessary in the circumstances.

You already have a surveyor involved and therefore an independent arbiter is due to report. There was no immediate need for action.

Did you accept the fixed penalty offered by the police?

mima

Yorkie1 wrote: »

You already have a surveyor involved and therefore an independent arbiter is due to report. There was no immediate need for action.

Did you accept the fixed penalty offered by the police?

Hi Yorkie1,

That was partly my point, the surveyor was already involved when they put the fence up.

And no, he waved the fine on condition that I do nothing more to the fence???


Cheers