Ordered purchase at show and retailer refusing refund.

George_Michael

This is how my local council define the reg's.

The Cancellation of Contracts Made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work Etc Regulations 2008

Under these regulations ALL businesses who sell goods or services away from their normal trading premises must have cancellable contracts with very few exceptions (such as transactions up to £35 and supply of foodstuffs and beverages by regular rounds men). The cooling off period is seven calendar days starting to run from the date of the contract.

The contract must:

• Display prescribed information in a clear and prominent manner and have a detachable notice which can be used by consumers who wish to cancel.
• Consumers may also cancel by electronic means, and cancellation takes place at the time the cancellation notice is posted or the e-mail sent to the named person or business in the contract.

If a consumer wants the work to start immediately he must make a record of this on the contract and the trader must advise that payment will be due for work undertaken before the cancellation period is up if he cancels later. The trader must make a record of this on the cancellation notice.

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/business/trading_standards/33340.asp

I remember reading that the original definition of an excursion (for EU regulations) was any trip made by a trader to a place outside of the town where his place of business was based.
It's now been changed to include any premises which is not their normal business location.

I'll see if I can find the link.

This is how the EU define a business premises with regards to distance and doorstep selling.

"Business premises include premises in whatever form (such as shops or lorries) which serve as a permanent place of business for the trader. Market stalls and fair stands should be treated as business premises even though they may be used by the trader on a temporary basis. Other premises which are rented for a short time only and where the trader is not established (such as hotels, restaurants, conference centres, cinemas rented by traders who are not established there) should not be
regarded as business premises. Similarly, all public spaces including public transports or facilities as well as private homes or workplaces should not be regarded as business premises.

Very confusing, but to me it states that if the seller rents a stall at a fair or market on a regular basis then it is to be regarded as a place of business, but if they only rent for a short time, then it doesn't qualify.

heretolearn_2

'Market stalls and fair stands should be treated as business premises even though they may be used by the trader on a temporary basis.' So this means exhibition and trade fair stands ARE business premises under this.

'Other premises which are rented for a short time only and where the trader is not established (such as hotels, restaurants, conference centres, cinemas rented by traders who are not established there) should not be regarded as business premises.' Again, this is to protect from the scammers/fly by nighters - so if a firm hires for itself a hotel lobby/a conference room etc for a sales event, just for that company, then it is not their business premises and the cooling off applies.

Having a stand at a third party event IS business premises.

unholyangel

heretolearn wrote: »

'Market stalls and fair stands should be treated as business premises even though they may be used by the trader on a temporary basis.' So this means exhibition and trade fair stands ARE business premises under this.

'Other premises which are rented for a short time only and where the trader is not established (such as hotels, restaurants, conference centres, cinemas rented by traders who are not established there) should not be regarded as business premises.' Again, this is to protect from the scammers/fly by nighters - so if a firm hires for itself a hotel lobby/a conference room etc for a sales event, just for that company, then it is not their business premises and the cooling off applies.

Having a stand at a third party event IS business premises.

I wouldn't agree. It's an exhibition centre (or conference centre if you prefer) that has been booked by traders that is not their normal place of business. The key phrase in the 2nd paragraph you quote was "where the trader is not established". This is why market stalls are different.

There is also another angle to approach this from as a fall back. Did you agree a date for the pram to be delivered? What exactly was mentioned about time? Is the pram being ordered in, specially made or is it a model they keep in stock? Essentially the doorstop selling regulations will give you the unconditional right to cancel, but if it doesn't apply, that doesn't mean you can't cancel.

This isn't the best way though as you will more than likely at least be liable for small administration cost. But I'm presuming that losing £40 (for example) is better for you than spending hundreds on a new pram you no longer need.

Are they actually prams or do they have multiple functions (like a buggy/pushchair?) If so, its possible you may end up needing the 2nd. Especially if it is going to be your main way of transporting the baby and you're going to be active. If you have a car......the buggy will obviously get less wear and tear (rain, mud etc).

So it may be beneficial to keep the other as a spare?

mjm3346

Selling away from business premises

What about trade fairs, exhibitions, one day sales or auctions?


If the trader sets up temporary business premises, for example in a hotel or hall, the sales are not covered by this law unless the customers concerned are taking part in an excursion organised by that trader

wealdroam

mjm3346 wrote: »

Selling away from business premises

Mjm3346, did that quote come from Salford City Council's website?

Here's a link which may help...

http://www.salford.gov.uk/selling-away.htm

heretolearn_2

'If the trader sets up temporary business premises, for example in a hotel or hall, the sales are not covered by this law unless the customers concerned are taking part in an excursion organised by that trader'

Which is exactly what I've been trying to say!

George_Michael

Just to show exactly how difficult it can be for the average man in the street (and on these boards) to actually interpret what is written in UK legislation, below is a copy of an e-mail I have just received from Consumer direct.

It appears that they are not sure if there should be a 7 day cooling off period either, and in their opinion it all comes down to what a judge decides in court.

The details that I gave in the question I asked were those provided by the OP.

Dear Mr Michael

Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct dated 6th March. Your reference number for this case is 4783776 and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.

The key legal points in response to your enquiry are as follows:

With reference to your enquiry, it is arguable whether a contract formed at a trade show would be exempt from the Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008. In your email you state that you have read the regulations but they appear to be 'vague'. You are unfortunately correct on this point and it is arguable whether contracts formed at a trade show should contain a 7 day cooling off period.

You may argue that as the person was only there for a limited period of time and it is not their usual trade premises, you should have been given a 7 day cooling off period. If no period was given, the contract itself may be unenforceable.

However, the trader may reasonably argue that they have paid for a pitch and whilst they may only be there for two days, this is technically their trade premises. This is where the grey area of law appears and it would ultimately be down to a judge in court to decide whether you should have been given a cooling off period.

I would however like to see whether I can refer this to your local Trading Standards to see whether they can offer an opinion. In order for me to do this, could you please provide me with your address details and telephone number,

So if they can't say one way or the other, what chance do we have?

Hintza

George_Michael wrote: »

So if they can't say one way or the other, what chance do we have?

Simple don't buy something unless you are sure you need it and then there won't be a problem. Or ask before you buy.

wealdroam

George_Michael wrote: »

So if they can't say one way or the other, what chance do we have?

Well, at least one council's Trading Standards dept have decided.

See post #15 and #16.

mnbf9rca

I found this at the website of a legal firm, but i can't post links as i'm a new user. Search for "Home and away: The Doorstep Regulations 2008, excursion issues. Steven Pybus v Paul Minkley (Lincoln CC, 20th July 2011)".

[the judge ruled that the selling] organisation had organised the signing of the agreement at the repair garage. This was an excursion away from the registered trading address of the credit hire organisation, and so was caught by the regulations.

clearly there's some relevance here - not sure how much though?