UPDATED: Hours to be reduced by 50%

Steel_2

After another consultation we have whittled down the options to these:

Option 1
They make my full-time role redundant and give me three months notice starting from April. I work this notice period for three months at 100% time and salary.

At the end of three months, I am given a new contract for the part-time role and I give it a go for four weeks. If I like it, I carry on. If I don't I can leave at the end of the four weeks with no further notice. They will give me a redundancy payout if I leave then based on my full-time pay as they see me as I will have worked for them for 2 years by then.

Throughout this I retain continuous service, access to pension and bupa etc. I can work for others freelance when part-time as long as it isn't a conflict of interest with their work.

If we get the money in from the projects once I'm on the new contract (the trigger point has been agreed) we go through the consultation process again and agree a variation of my terms and conditions with notice period etc). If we get to the trigger point during the notice period, the notice period is just called off and we go on as before.

Option 2

I have an agreed variation of my terms and conditions imposed upon me. In April, I go part-time and am paid a lump sum in lieu of three months notice equivalent to three months full time pay. Continuous service, etc all apply. However if I bring in enough money during that three months period to June to bring my hours back up to full time (i.e. reach the trigger point) then they reserve the right to require a repayment of the notice period should by hours go back up to full time.

I'm not sure about this to be honest. That's like giving someone compensation for an injury and then taking it back when they are well again so I have to take advice on this.

To my mind (and I never said this to them though) what's to stop me sabotaging the process to ensure we don't get any money in to trigger my full time hours and I stay part-time until July so I get to keep the money. They have part-time money in the budget for my job until next April unless there is a merger or some other significant change which means my post has to go because they can no longer pay me.

I guess it shows faith in my abilities and a lot of trust on their part.


Option 3

I refuse the offer of part-time work and be made redundant.

This option has not be properly dicsussed as they seem to believe that I would not consider that. No idea whether I would get PILON, which I think I will as everyone else who is going has been given that option.

***

Given my workload, if I take the option of part-time in April with a PILON payment, I cannot see how I will cope with my normal work and then find the time to pursue commercial contracts.

I have already discussed that with them and warned them that balls will have to be dropped. I have also told them that some of the team members who are being made redundant were involved in projects that have a number of outcomes that makes me the next qualified person to pick up the projects and run with them. This started happening two days ago with a manager dumping a project report on me that I knew nothing about on the basis her job is going soon and she doesn't have to time to sort it out on top of everything else.

They hadn't even considered that...

As the rationale for bringing my role to part-time was a perceived lack of work due to losing core funding...lack of work my butt.

I am really stuck as to what to do now.

Steel_2

I should add my husband wants me to take Option 2 and take the lump sum payment up front on the basis that given the lack of success my department has had bringing in any money and the personality of my boss seems to sabotage all projects, it is highly unlikely we'll get some money. If we do, it will be more by luck than anything else.

However, part of my agreement with my senior managers to carry on working here is that my working conditions change so I can get involved in more company projects, and not be sequestered away by my possesive boss who doesn't let anyone near me usually and stops me getting involved with anything becuase of my workload.

I told them I miss being part of a team and have been isolated, and they have already started making moves to sort this out by talking to my boss and making sure he knows I'm under-utilised and have important skills that are needed by my colleagues and the company. He is not happy, and has tried on two occasions in the last two weeks to stop me getting involved in other projects when asked but luckily I had the backing of his bosses to do so.

If I go part-time I won't be able to do this as I will need every hour I work to compelete what's on my desk.

getmore4less

clasic lets make cuts and then not think through the implications.


I would revisit option 2.

make the payment repayable prorata if you go back full time.

Make it known you will be only working the part time hours ANY thing extra will be paid at overtime with holiday

or negotiate the extra work as self employed contracts since thats the business you are trying to build.

How will bringing in new buiness work with short hours?

getmore4less

option 1 seemm work full time forthe posibility of 2weeks redundancy paying in 3 months

option 2 work part time for the same money(much up front) less the full redundacy payment. continuity gives redindacny at the part time rate later.

option 2 is no brainer if you can get the terms of option 2 on the refunds of upfront payment sorted,

Any increase in work load that will come if they give you work from the others that are leaving does not impact the payment ONLY your own work increasing back to full time and the refund is prorata.


Why they don't just insist on 1 which is the default legal one and gets full time for full time pay which thye have to pay out anyway.

can't see any point in taking redundancy now when you have achance to keep this job long term, they will cut too far and need you so you will have some leverage.

I think the days of your boss may be numbered, chances are he will back down or leave once they show they won't stand for his nonsence anymore.


Also option 2 if you stick to the hours gives you 3 months funding for your own buisness building.

Steel_2

getmore4less wrote: »

option 1 seemm work full time forthe posibility of 2weeks redundancy paying in 3 months

option 2 work part time for the same money(much up front) less the full redundacy payment. continuity gives redindacny at the part time rate later.

The money will actually be more, because in addition to getting a 3 month lump sum up front I will be working part time and therefore being paid a part time wage at the same time.

option 2 is no brainer if you can get the terms of option 2 on the refunds of upfront payment sorted,

I've spoke to ACAS this morning and was told that the 3 month PILON payment is my legal entitlement and that any refund of it is a separate issue and not covered by employment law. It would be an agreement between me and my bosses. If I say no to it, I suspect this will be taken off the table.

Any increase in work load that will come if they give you work from the others that are leaving does not impact the payment ONLY your own work increasing back to full time and the refund is prorata.

Any increase in work cannot be done by me when part-time unless it is specifically from project work I or my boss has won. Anything else is not in the agreement and will not trigger my return to full-time hours, so I have to be really strict and say no.

Why they don't just insist on 1 which is the default legal one and gets full time for full time pay which thye have to pay out anyway.

No idea. As I said, they've never had to so this before so I'm not sure if they know what they're really doing.

can't see any point in taking redundancy now when you have achance to keep this job long term, they will cut too far and need you so you will have some leverage.

I agree.

I think the days of your boss may be numbered, chances are he will back down or leave once they show they won't stand for his nonsence anymore.

My boss is a sociopath (part of the problem I've ahd to talk to my bosses about) He'll take everyone around him down, including me, before that happens.

Also option 2 if you stick to the hours gives you 3 months funding for your own buisness building.

That's what I thought. I did say to them at one point that I may not want to return to full-time work, that I may enjoy the arrangement. The director laughed at that point but I was deadly serious!

Steel_2

ACAS adviser brought up an interesting point.

She asked if I was being made responsible for bringing in part of my own salary was I then self-employed???

[sigh]

More phone calls and consultations ahoy...

getmore4less

With option 2 unless they change the terms of the notice then they would have to pay that again if they made you redundant along with redundancy pay.

If the compensation pay for losing the full time is 3 months 100% and still have a contractual job thats a no brainer.

Subject the the T&C's of the new contract I would snap their hand off before they realise what a good deal it is for you(and stop giving them hints).

The key clause would be that any payback is prorata, say 1/13 for each week.

Steel_2

getmore4less wrote: »

With option 2 unless they change the terms of the notice then they would have to pay that again if they made you redundant along with redundancy pay.

If the compensation pay for losing the full time is 3 months 100% and still have a contractual job thats a no brainer.

Subject the the T&C's of the new contract I would snap their hand off before they realise what a good deal it is for you(and stop giving them hints).

The key clause would be that any payback is prorata, say 1/13 for each week.

I should stress it is not compensation, because that insinuates that it is a goodwill gesture as sorts. This is actually what I am legally entitled to as 3 months notice if they want me to start part-time in April rather than work the notice period and start in June.

I have no idea how the finances are being worked, but I know there is a ring-fenced redundancy fund the company's board members have insisted on and that my lump sum would come from, whereas my working my notice full time until June would have to considered as salary, which I think would require a rejig of the finances. As far as I'm aware, they have 12 months part-time salary for me and no more, so I think me working my notice would actually create a headache for them.

Good idea about the weekly pro-rata idea as I was struggling with how that one would be paid back.

getmore4less

if they are paying full time for three months as a lump sum AND still paying your part time salary that is more than you would be entitled to

They could quite legaly give you three months notice(probably less if the contract is less) but only have you work part time having the rest as garden leave.

Either way it is still compenasation for giving up the right to notice for a change in contract.

As long as they agree to a prorata repayment if you return to full time option 2 looks the best.

Not sure how ACAs came to the conclusion you are(could be) self employed that looks like nonsense.

Steel_2

getmore4less wrote: »

Not sure how ACAs came to the conclusion you are(could be) self employed that looks like nonsense.

Neither do I, but I checked it out through the HMRC site and bottom line I would using time paid by the company to get in the work and using company property to do so. I'm still being paid by them and they do my PAYE stuff etc so I'm employed.

I'm just working my acceptance document at the moment and doing it as carefully as I can weaving in conditions that satisfactory discussions about the lump sum are made and the restrictive working clause is lifted from the contract to the satisfaction of both of us.

I noticed in the notes written up the word 'may' is used throughout the option for the lump sum, as in:

The company may consider giving X a lump sum payment to bring X into the new working conditions as soon as possible e.g. three months' notice at X's full pay rate. The company would reserve the right to require a repayment of the notice period should X's working hours go up to full time within three months of the start date. the process of how this repayment would happen has yet to be considered.

Obviously I won't be signing anything that agrees to a full repayment, only a pro-rata, but I'm going to wait and see what their ideas are first before I tell them mine. I want to see if they'll try and get away with full repayment.

Also, they want to put a proviso in the contract that they will lift the restrictions on working elsewhere as long as there would not be a conflict of interest. This is fine with me as long as it is not so extensive I cannot make a living so the extent of this has to be explored.