Some advice on oil central heating!

ReflexReaction

Hello all!

I'm a newbie to this forum (relatively) and I've searched high and low, but a lot of the information I got from the forums here and web in general was unspecific to my case, old (out of date?) or generally contradictory (one person says oil is fine, another is remortgaging to cover the bills!).

So, I wanted to explain my situation, and hopefully generate some relevant, up to date opinions / discussion ... hope that's ok!

I'm currently living in an end of terrace 2 bed cottage in a city, gas combi boiler, installed just 3 or so years ago and very efficient! We pay about £55-60 per month on our gas, and both work all day. Mainly have showers. The house has a massive amount of loft insulation but no cavity wall insulation as it’s so old we couldn’t get it.

However, the time has come to upgrade houses and in turn we’re looking to move to the country side. We have both lived in towns all of our lives, so are still trying to get our heads around the concepts of septic tanks, wood burners, oil fired central heating, sheep, etc.

The house we’ve seen is a 5 bed, 5 bath, 2 reception detached house, probably about 30 years old and just extended about 6 years ago. At that time, the owners fitted new doors and (double glazing) windows, and also bought a new oil boiler to cater for the significant extension. The oil boiler is a Worcester Danesmoor 20/25, which is 84.3% efficient Cat C (http://www.homeheatingguide.co.uk/efficiency-tables.php?model=001774) – which they tell me was installed when the extension went up 6 and a half years ago – apparently it was “one of the best” at the time (thoughts?). There is a log burner in one of the lounges, but it’s not connected to the heating and just used to extra heat the lounge in question. I estimate the house has 16-17 radiators, not including the 2 in the conservatory which I wouldn’t bother using. I would not plan to heat the whole house on a typical week, maybe only using 10-11 of them.

The owners have told me that they use about 2500 litres of oil a year, and that one of them is usually around during the day time. The tank is a 2000 litre but they usually fill up 1000 litres at a time. After reading hundreds if not thousands of posts / web sites, I think 2500 litres sounds a little on the low size for a house of this size. The owners have confirmed that the loft is “fully insulated about 10 years ago”, and also completely boarded. I suspect that 10 years ago people weren’t putting in as much insulation as they do today, but thoughts on this also welcomed! I asked about cavity wall insulation and was told that no, it had not been done (I assume it’ll be possible though).

So, given the above, what are your thoughts? The house is a lovely one, it’s big. I did notice that they’d turned off some of the radiators in some rooms (e.g. the study), but I guess that’s just sensible. Does 2500 litres per year seem reasonable to heat a house of this size? I don’t want to instantly think they’re lying to me, but they did say they couldn’t provide any receipts for recent oil orders. The house has been on the market for nearly a year now, with no offers - I think lots of people are scared by oil / septic tanks (I am of the opinion if I want to move to the country side then I have to live with things like this!).

Would also be interested to hear what you think about ASHP and the potential to use it in the future. I've done a fair bit of reading on it so far and found that the moment, they use more electricity than I'd use oil? The garden isn't massive on the property, so maybe ASHP wouldn't be suitable anyway? The house is in Bedfordshire, so not in remote Scotland were it's likely to be much colder...

Any advice, recommendations, etc would be welcome.

Thanks,

ReflexReaction

smcqis

You will never know till you use it yourself. Everybody has different heat needs, for example some people are happy to sit in 16 degrees, others want over 20. You dontn know if all or how many heaters have been on in their house at the same time they arent going to tell you they have used 8000 litres in a year at the same time. Though my thinking is if you can afford a 5 bedroom country house then surely the oil consumption shouldnt be a major thing, lets face it we dont know how the price of oil is going to go in the future

[Deleted User]

Don't believe anything the sellers tell you...

Stating the obvious... It's a very large house and oil is very expensive so in winter expect to pay up to 10 times what you are paying now. Make no mistake it will be a shock if you like a warm house.

GSHP - not without massive upheaval and expense...

ASHP - for such a large house, I wouldn't, and I have one which I'm delighted with but your property sounds way to big for a single unit.

suki1964

I've a 12 year old 5 bedroom detached house in the middle of a field in the NW coast of Ni. The only thing we have upgraded is the double glazing as what was in was rubbish

I had two elderly parents live here as well -one disabled- both home all day with limited movement.

We used to use around 3000 litres of oil a year till I put in the stoves. Now that's down to around 1800 litres as I don't have the non living rooms heated as high and the stoves keep the living rooms to the toasty heat the olds love and help maintain the heat of the rest of the house


Oil will never be as cheap as mains gas but it's not so expensive as you may think. Its just a huge shock at first of paying upfront Careful monitoring of when and where you need the heat will help and lowering the thermostat for non living rooms and perhaps lighting a fire in the living room will also help

Itismehonest

It's how long is a piece of string depending on the individual property & the needs of the occupants.

I'm in a centuries old 5 bed farmhouse with some modern extensions the majority of which is heated by oil. There are 11 rads (2 being x2m), one room with underfloor heating & a Rayburn in the kitchen which is running 24/7 all year. We used about 2500 in the last 12 months. A cold winter, like the ones before this, we can use about another 500.
The walls are over 2ft thick & the lofts are well insulated. Once warm, the house holds its' heat well. Period windows & doors can be draughty but that's what good curtains are for

As other posters have said, it isn't so much the cost of the oil itself (although no fuel is cheap nowadays) it is the fact that you have to plan for it's delivery in advance.

ReflexReaction

smcqis wrote: »

You will never know till you use it yourself. Everybody has different heat needs, for example some people are happy to sit in 16 degrees, others want over 20. You dontn know if all or how many heaters have been on in their house at the same time they arent going to tell you they have used 8000 litres in a year at the same time. Though my thinking is if you can afford a 5 bedroom country house then surely the oil consumption shouldnt be a major thing, lets face it we dont know how the price of oil is going to go in the future

Thanks for replying but actually your last statement isn't really fair. I live in an expensive city, and in fact the 5 bed country house is going to be much cheaper than a smaller option in the city... so things like efficiency of heating are the biggest concern!

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Don't believe anything the sellers tell you...

Stating the obvious... It's a very large house and oil is very expensive so in winter expect to pay up to 10 times what you are paying now. Make no mistake it will be a shock if you like a warm house.

GSHP - not without massive upheaval and expense...

ASHP - for such a large house, I wouldn't, and I have one which I'm delighted with but your property sounds way to big for a single unit.

Hi, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to reply to me, however it’s these kinds of hearsay comments I’ve found scattered across these forums and the net in general. For every 4 people stating how much they use, there’s always a 5th saying something like you. 10 times by bill today would be £600 per month in the winter, and this also feels unlikely given the fact my 2 bed end of terrace currently has 8 radiators, and is brick walls with no cavity wall insulation. I understand it’ll be a shock, but I wanted to get some information surrounding what I can realistically expect, not just a random number like 10x which doesn’t mean much to me. I totally take on board and thank you for your comments re GSHP and ASHP – it doesn’t sound like these are viable at the moment although GSHP may be a sensible option should the boiler break?

suki1964 wrote: »

I've a 12 year old 5 bedroom detached house in the middle of a field in the NW coast of Ni. The only thing we have upgraded is the double glazing as what was in was rubbish

I had two elderly parents live here as well -one disabled- both home all day with limited movement.

We used to use around 3000 litres of oil a year till I put in the stoves. Now that's down to around 1800 litres as I don't have the non living rooms heated as high and the stoves keep the living rooms to the toasty heat the olds love and help maintain the heat of the rest of the house

Oil will never be as cheap as mains gas but it's not so expensive as you may think. Its just a huge shock at first of paying upfront Careful monitoring of when and where you need the heat will help and lowering the thermostat for non living rooms and perhaps lighting a fire in the living room will also help

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me! I’m sure the NW coast of NI get’s a lot colder than Bedfordshire!

The house I’m moving into also had the double glazing replaced with the extension (about 6.5 years ago), so one has to assume that the windows and doors will be pretty air tight and efficient. I’ve got to ask – what do you mean by “putting the stoves in”? Do you mean you put log burners into the living room? If so, are they stand alone or are they connected to the heating system? The house I’m moving to has a stand alone log burner in the living room – not connected to the heating system, however I guess there’s a possibility I could get it connected to the central heating so when it’s in use, there is no need for the oil boiler to be on.

I’m also interested in how you manage to control individual rooms temps as you suggest. Do you have multiple thermostats, one in each room? Does that mean the boiler is clever enough to pump hot water to only certain parts of the house? I doubt the house I’m buying will have the ability to do this, but I will find out. If it doesn’t, is this a system that relatively easy to install? I plan to turn off radiators in rooms not used, but it would certainly be nice to control the different temps in different rooms I do use – specially as heat rises so I doubt I’ll need to keep up stairs as hot!

Finally, I certainly take on board the concept of having to pay upfront for your heating! I understand that this isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I’m sensible with my money and plan to set up a standing order from our bank accounts into a spare “heating account”, per month, which will burden the cost when it comes to filling up time.

Itismehonest wrote: »

It's how long is a piece of string depending on the individual property & the needs of the occupants.

I'm in a centuries old 5 bed farmhouse with some modern extensions the majority of which is heated by oil. There are 11 rads (2 being x2m), one room with underfloor heating & a Rayburn in the kitchen which is running 24/7 all year. We used about 2500 in the last 12 months. A cold winter, like the ones before this, we can use about another 500.
The walls are over 2ft thick & the lofts are well insulated. Once warm, the house holds its' heat well. Period windows & doors can be draughty but that's what good curtains are for

As other posters have said, it isn't so much the cost of the oil itself (although no fuel is cheap nowadays) it is the fact that you have to plan for it's delivery in advance.

Hey, and thanks for getting back to me. Sounds like your house is similar to the one I’m considering buying, however there is no underfloor heating. I’m interested that you state you run you Rayburn oil boiler 24/7 ALL year. Have you found that this is more economical than just having it run in the morning for a few hours and then again in the evening? I’ve been reading a lot on 24/7 vs just as you need it, and the general concensus seems to be if you’re well insulated, as it sounds you are, then 24/7 is actually more economical and a nicer environment to live in.

As I said in my previous post, I’m not sure on how deep the loft insulation is, but I’d be prepared to replace / upgrade it manually if I needed to (shame it’s all boarded but hey!) I guess I’ll also need to look into whether or not its even going to be possible to cavity wall insulate the house (I assume at least the new parts of the house will be OK, not sure how old the older part of the house is!

Itismehonest

ReflexReaction wrote: »

Hey, and thanks for getting back to me. Sounds like your house is similar to the one I’m considering buying, however there is no underfloor heating. I’m interested that you state you run you Rayburn oil boiler 24/7 ALL year. Have you found that this is more economical than just having it run in the morning for a few hours and then again in the evening? I’ve been reading a lot on 24/7 vs just as you need it, and the general concensus seems to be if you’re well insulated, as it sounds you are, then 24/7 is actually more economical and a nicer environment to live in.

As I said in my previous post, I’m not sure on how deep the loft insulation is, but I’d be prepared to replace / upgrade it manually if I needed to (shame it’s all boarded but hey!) I guess I’ll also need to look into whether or not its even going to be possible to cavity wall insulate the house (I assume at least the new parts of the house will be OK, not sure how old the older part of the house is!

The Rayburn & the boiler are 2 separate entities.
Rayburn (Aga) cookers tick over at a low heat which you turn up before you want to use them.
You can't turn them off & on in a short period of time unless you want to lose at least your eyebrows from the blowback :eek: They have to be left to cool down completely before you attempt to relight them.
Many people turn them off in the summer if they have alternative cooking facilities. We have done this some years. Last year was fairly wet & grim in our area (yes, I know others had blazing summers, we didn't ) so I was giving you an idea of the cost inclusive of running the Rayburn all year.
The boiler is a Grant which runs the CH & underfloor heating. This winter there have been few days when we have had to run it for more than twice a day. Colder winters when the heating is on all day, obviously, increase the oil consumption as pointed out in my first post.

I don't think you'll really be able to decide too much in advance of living in the house. Some things you just won't know till then.

ReflexReaction

Itismehonest wrote: »

The Rayburn & the boiler are 2 separate entities.
Rayburn (Aga) cookers tick over at a low heat which you turn up before you want to use them.
You can't turn them off & on in a short period of time unless you want to lose at least your eyebrows from the blowback :eek: They have to be left to cool down completely before you attempt to relight them.
Many people turn them off in the summer if they have alternative cooking facilities. We have done this some years. Last year was fairly wet & grim in our area (yes, I know others had blazing summers, we didn't ) so I was giving you an idea of the cost inclusive of running the Rayburn all year.
The boiler is a Grant which runs the CH & underfloor heating. This winter there have been few days when we have had to run it for more than twice a day. Colder winters when the heating is on all day, obviously, increase the oil consumption as pointed out in my first post.

I don't think you'll really be able to decide too much in advance of living in the house. Some things you just won't know till then.

Thanks for the clarrification! So what do you use your Rayburn for? Just cooking? Or does it heat some of your CH system? Or all of it? If all of it, what do you use the oil boiler for? :j

lovesgshp

How many sq mtrs is the house and also the garden? We have GSHPS working in properties of 300 sq mtrs +, with no radiator changes.

ReflexReaction

Geotherm wrote: »

How many sq mtrs is the house and also the garden? We have GSHPS working in properties of 300 sq mtrs +, with no radiator changes.

About 200 sq mtrs.

I'd be more concerned about the electricity bill

[Deleted User]

Hi,

I'm being serious about x10 if you like a warm house and treat it like GCH.

A mate moved from a three bed modern detached with GSH apprx £50pm and moved to a large 4 bed modern detached which can cost up to £500pm on oil in the last bad winters...

Indeed when I had oil in a large detached 5 bed house near Bristol I could empty a tank in a month during a mild winter. I like a warm house @ say 20c.

I've also had LPG which is frankly worse due to unfair contracts and high prices.

With reneawables I have a warm house 24/7 without high bills or organising deliveries and all that nonsence...

All the best.