Agency seemingly refusing to give out landlords address

Soniclord

Hi,

I'm currently renting through an agency (Belvoir............!!!!!!!!!!) and have only recently moved in (within the last month) anyway when we moved in the boiler didn't work! The water pressure was on 3 bar instead of the usual 1.5 bar water pressure (apparently 1.5 is what it's supposed to be?) so I contacted the agency and asked them if they could send a plumber out as the boiler wasn't working! As it kept displaying an error code which didn't rectify itself nor did it go away when we pressed the reset button or by switching the boiler off then back on again.

So they sent a plumber out and he told me what I already knew that it being on 3 bar it was set too high so he released some of the water to get the pressure down and since he did that it's worked fine (until tonight when it came up with a general fault, which rectified itself when I pressed the reset button) but to cut a long story short (ish) the agency rang us and told us that the landlord wasn't willing to pay the plumbers bill of £30 (for less than 10 minutes work.....) and that they weren't willing to pay it either! So either we paid it or they'd dispute it and take it out of the bond at the end of the tenancy! I know they can't do that as the landlord and tenants act 1985 says,

The landlord will normally be responsible:

(a) to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the

dwelling, including drains, gutters and external pipes,

(b) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling for the supply of water, gas, electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences) but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity, and

(c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installation in the dwelling for space heating and heating water. (Section 11, LTA 1985)

And in my opinion the boiler definitely falls under the category of an installation for heating and water!

Anyway apparently when the agency did the inventory 3 days before we moved in they said the person doing the inventory said they hadn't touched the boiler and that the landlord had been in the house the day before we moved in and he'd apparently set it to the correct pressure (but they didn't witness him do it...) the agency believed their staff member (obviously) and they also believed the landlord hadn't set the boilers pressure too high, but the landlord did say he'd set the boilers pressure to the normal setting, obviously not...

So I spoke to the agency (whose franchise owner is the most condescending P.O.S I've ever known!) and we had many words about this (rather irate words at times) and he basically kept talking over me and trying to make me feel guilty that the plumber wouldn't be paid for the job he'd done (which isn't my problem! As it's not my responsibility to pay it!) so anyway the agency were seriously doing my head in so I said "Right if you're not going to let me talk on the phone, do I have to come down to the office to talk?" at this point I was fuming as I couldn't get a word in edgeways! So my partner went on the phone to him and he said to her that he felt threatened by what I said and that he was seriously considering 'Getting us out at his own expense' even though he can't do that as we have a 6 month tenancy agreement and no matter how much money he throws wherever, he simply can't get us out unless we don't pay the rent (we always pay the rent) or willfully cause damage to the house, which we would never do.

Anyway I got back on the phone to him and basically agreed for the sake of argument to pay the damn plumbers bill of £30 (which no doubt included a cut for the agency!) and he thanked me for that and said how did I want to pay it by debit card over the phone now OR they'd send me the bill, I opted for them to send me the bill (they never did.....) I then hung up as the conversation was over.

So after having a day or 2 to think about the agents threats I decided to speak to the Private Sector Tenancy Relations Officer at my local Council about they're behaviour as I was disgusted at how he dare threaten my partner over the phone saying he was considering getting us out at his own expense (who the hell does he think he is.....) and I had a response from the council who said they'd rang him and they'd told him that he should speak to the tenants amicably and that his behaviour could maybe be seen as harassment, and apparently the agent said that the situation did get irate between both parties and he would refrain from this situation in the future.

For some reason though the council informed the agency that even if they didn't want to pay the bill that they should pay it and then request it back at the end of the tenancy out of the deposit.... They can't do that though as it's the landlords responsibility to keep in good working order anything associated with heating and water not ours.. So why the council said that I have no idea.

I also mentioned to the council that I'd requested the landlords proper address (not the C/O address on the tenancy agreement, which is actually the agencies address) anyway I spoke to the agency and they said if I put in writing either in an email or by letter that would be fine, so I emailed my request for the landlords address on the 16th of February and I then emailed again on the 29th of February to see how they were getting on processing my request as I'd not had any response by email or letter with the landlords address on it, so far I still haven't had any response and by Midnight on the 8th of March the 21 days will be up!

If they haven't provided me with the landlords address by then what can I do about it? Is there any other way I can get the landlords address? Because I seriously believe he doesn't have a clue how the agency treats HIS tenants!

And going back to the council, the comment they made about the agency giving us the landlords address is that they know by law when tenants move in then it's a legal requirement for the landlords details to be disclosed, if requested in writing and within 21 days, but they said, however, the landlord has assigned the agency to take care of the tenancy and tenants so they probably won't want involvement as they are paying the agent.

But that's ridiculous, they still have to provide me with the landlords proper address regardless!

Does anyone have any advice for me please?

And sorry for the very long post.

steve1980

You can pay for the information via the Land Registry website.

Even if Belvoir are managing the property the Landlords address should still be on the lease.

If I were you I'd be looking to move out after the 6 months as Belvoir clearly don't want you in the property and don't know what they're doing when it comes to lettings.

MissMoneypenny

Soniclord wrote: »

And going back to the council, the comment they made about the agency giving us the landlords address is that they know by law when tenants move in then it's a legal requirement for the landlords details to be disclosed, if requested in writing and within 21 days, but they said, however, the landlord has assigned the agency to take care of the tenancy and tenants so they probably won't want involvement as they are paying the agent.

But that's ridiculous, they still have to provide me with the landlords proper address regardless!

Does anyone have any advice for me please?

Have you contacted your council's Tenancy Relations Officer about this and put it in writing? If the council worker is still refusing to do their job, then contact your MP
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

This is the information from Shelter England, website

Giving the tenant certain information



Details of property agents

All landlords have to give their tenants their name and a UK contact address. If the property is managed by a letting or property agent, they must also provide you with the landlord's full name and address. Your landlord should also tell you what fees are charged by agents.

Any requests should be made in writing, you should also keep a copy of the letter and send it by recorded delivery, if you want proof of postage. If you don't get a reply in writing within 21 days of them receiving your letter, the landlord is committing a criminal offence.

Your next step could be to report your landlord to your local council's tenancy relations office, who can get involved in disputes between landlord and tenants and can even prosecute the person who does not provide this information.


You should also be able to get your landlord's details from the Land Registry. You can do this online by filling in a form and paying a small fee.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/rights_and_responsibilities/landlords_responsibilities


Are Belvoir a member of ARLA? The agency or landlord, really should have checked that the boiler was working before your moved in. If they don't do basic things like this, what else have they forgotten to do! Did the property have and EPC? And an in date Gas Safety Certificate?

I hope the landlord has obtained consent to let the property?

Just edited to ask if you have taken out legal cover with your contents insurance? It's usually an optional extra and costs about £20 extra per year. If you haven't, you might want to get it, but make sure it doesn't exclude legal action against or defending from, a landlord. IMO, DAS offered good policies when I last read their T&Cs, so perhaps read their policy and then ask which insurance companies use their Legal Cover?

They won't cover for problems before you took out the policy, but as your landlord sounds like he has financial problems, it might be £20 well spent for you.

AFK_Matrix

And to double check you are in England yes? You also need to start writing to people and stop emailing them or just phoning them. As it sounds like your going to need all the back up paperwork you can get as I bet your going to have fun getting your deposit back etc. Good luck

bunnydrumming

To be honest I don't think I would want a tenant to have my address if I had an agent (not that I'm a LL) I'm a single female and to have an irate person turning up at my door would not be pleasant. I have never been a landlord, only a tenant but I always thought that the LL paid the agent to do the hard work for them and so check the contract as to who is responsible - the agent or the LL as some agents are responsible for this - not the LL i believe.

Who booked the plumber - as a tenant I always let the LL or agent book any work needed so it was clear who was paying.

As other people have said - don't phone, especially if you get angry on the phone this works against you. Put everything in writing in a professional manner and keep lots of copies and state in your letter that you are sending copies to the local council so they know what is going on.

I also always took photos of the house as soon as i moved in - easy with a digital camera! photos of any stains on floors, furniture and walls, tears in wallpaper or carpets, knocks to furniture or surrounds of doors. Made sure there was a date on the photos and stored them so when I left there could be no blame attached to me for issues already there.

AT same time whenever I move out of a property I clean, clean, clean including renting a carpet cleaner as that is much cheaper then a LL trying to pinch some of my deposit.

Good luck

19lottie82

bunnydrumming wrote: »

To be honest I don't think I would want a tenant to have my address if I had an agent (not that I'm a LL) I'm a single female and to have an irate person turning up at my door would not be pleasant.

It doesn't matter if the landlord "doesn't want" the T having their address, they must legaly provide it.

bunnydrumming wrote: »

I have never been a landlord, only a tenant but I always thought that the LL paid the agent to do the hard work for them and so check the contract as to who is responsible - the agent or the LL as some agents are responsible for this - not the LL i believe.

Of course repairs are the landlords responsibility. He / She must provide the LA with permission and funds to carry them out. The LA cannot go ahead with repairs without these, they just acts as a " go between".

tbs624

I would not pay the plumber's bill. Let the dimwit LA/LL try to seek reimbursement from your tenancy deposit when you leave and you can then formally challenge them.

They called the plumber out and the LL can set the costs down on his tax return.

Are they suggesting that you personally caused the boiler problem?

As for the provision of the LL's name and address see LL& T Act 1985,s1

(1)If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord’s name and address to—

(a)any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or
(b)any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,

that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord’s name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.

(2)A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with subsection (1) commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

(3)In this section and section 2—
(a)“tenant” includes a statutory tenant; and
(b)“landlord” means the immediate landlord.

and

s38 In this Act—“address” means a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, its registered office

LA's office may be the LA's "place of business" but it is not the LL's "place of business"

A Council TRO ought to know this. This one of those issues where the law provides for resolution but it doesn't seem to get followed through

As someone else has suggested, a £4 quid fee to the Land Registry for the info is however usually quicker than trying to extract it from the LA, provided that the LL has kept HMLR updated

chiefgoobster

The letting agency sound like a right bunch of kn*bs.
Your landlord is quibbling about a £30 plumbers bill to deal with
his boiler in his house.He's quite willing to let his property out but seems less than interested in looking after it.Another kn*b.

You should have,by law, a copy of the Gas Check Certificate.On that it would have the landlords address at the top somewhere.
The boiler must be checked once a year.....and that would include other gas appliances (cooking hob, gas fire etc etc).

It may or may not suit you but when the 6 months is up, you should move out and deal with a more worthy landlord.


hope this has helped in some way. Good luck.

tbs624

bunnydrumming wrote: »

To be honest I don't think I would want a tenant to have my address if I had an agent (not that I'm a LL) I'm a single female and to have an irate person turning up at my door would not be pleasant.

the purpose of obtaining the LL's address is so that the T can write direct to the LL

bunnydrumming wrote: »

I have never been a landlord, only a tenant but I always thought that the LL paid the agent to do the hard work for them and so check the contract as to who is responsible - the agent or the LL as some agents are responsible for this - not the LL i believe.

The LL is ultimately responsible for repairs - it is s/he who says yay or nay and it is s/he who has to foot the bill. Some LAs may hold a float for small repairs but many have to check with the LL on each and every occasion.

There is of course absolutely no excuse for an LA ( or a LL) to deal with a T in verbally abusive fashion.

bunnydrumming wrote: »

Who booked the plumber - as a tenant I always let the LL or agent book any work needed so it was clear who was paying.

The OP says that he asked the LA to send a plumbler and that the LA organised it. LA/LL could initially have come out themselves to ascertain whether or not a plumber was needed.

bunnydrumming wrote: »

I also always took photos of the house as soon as i moved in - easy with a digital camera! photos of any stains on floors, furniture and walls, tears in wallpaper or carpets, knocks to furniture or surrounds of doors. Made sure there was a date on the photos and stored them so when I left there could be no blame attached to me for issues already there.

You should also send a copy of the photos to the LA/LL as part of the inventory process

G_M

Although tbs624 is right about the LL& T Act 1985,s1, there are problems enforcing this. This has come up before and I don't know the answer.

Yes, the law says the agent has 21 days to provide the LL's address, when asked in writing for it by a tenant. Yes, there is a criminal penalty.

But the police are not going to enforce this. And Councils also appear reluctant (esp now with their ever-reducing budgets/resources), unless there is a serious history of other wrong-doing involved.

Whether a tenant can bring a private prosecution I don't know. And whether it's worth it, I doubt.

As for the boiler -LL's responsibility.

tbs624

Note that I said

This one of those issues where the law provides for resolution but it doesn't seem to get followed through

As someone else has suggested, a £4 quid fee to the Land Registry for the info is however usually quicker than trying to extract it from the LA, provided that the LL has kept HMLR updated

AFAIAA we have had *one* post on here with a T saying that their Council refused to support them on the issue.

However, some LAs *do* respond once they are in receipt of a formal letter from the T, quoting the relevant law, and with the words cc- x town council TRO/local Councillor/local MP at the bottom.

Many of us have said that the problem is not that we need more laws and regulations - we need the existing ones to be properly enforced.