Numeracy, Financial Literacy, and Financial Decision-Making

seriousDFW

JamesU wrote: »

Sorry, could not resist the irony with the calculation given the topic under discussion. Seriously though, things look pretty grim given the simplicity of the questions in Cepheus's link, something very wrong with the current education system by the looks of it.

JamesU

It's ok, I know what you meant. If I wasn't currently questioning my career choice very seriously I would have found it funny.

I agree, there is a lot wrong with the current education system and I am scared it's beyond repair.

Problems can be wide-ranging, and for some, teachers are the first in the firing line. I do resent that, because by the time they reach us, so much has happened at the hands of others, it seems unfair we get the blame for everything. Equally, if our students do well, the credit is not normally to the teacher, but to the parents, and the other teachers that have gone before.

Often primary teachers don't teach maths effectively because it's not their specialist area, and the problem is then compounded, no pun intended, as this can happen year on year. Primary schools could deploy specialist maths teachers, I know lots who would love this role.

Parents play such a huge role in shaping their children's maths understanding. If parents pass on negative stereotypes about maths, this can really damage children.

One significant problem is behaviour. In many classrooms, children are so poorly behaved, that learning just cannot take place, and in badly-managed schools, this behaviour is not dealt with.

It is really very hard to be 'inspiring' when faced with verbally abusive, disrespectful and uncooperative children, especially when you have many in one class.

gadgetmind

seriousDFW wrote: »

It may seem easy to you but don't assume it's easy to teach this to everyone - it isn't!

Sorry, but this isn't advanced stuff, it's the absolute basics, the fundamental skills that any adult should have to survive in the modern world.

Kids spend thousands of hours at school, so why can't we find at least a couple of hours to cover material such as this?

Lokolo

gadgetmind wrote: »

Kids spend thousands of hours at school, so why can't we find at least a couple of hours to cover material such as this?

They do cover it, doesn't mean kids care and remember it.

God knows I know I didn't listen in half my biology and English lessons. Ask me the make up of a cell and I could only tell you the nucleus!

By all means, I remember quadratic formula, compound interest etc. but that's only because I enjoyed it (wow, I sound a little sad from that!)

gadgetmind

BLB53 wrote: »

The other problem is that there are not as many good maths teachers in schools who can inspire their pupils to learn with confidence. I suspect a lot of teachers probably struggle themselves with numeracy.

I do fear that this might be the crux of the problem. I know a few teachers who would initially struggle with those basic problems yet know the dates of birth, coronation and death of every English king and queen, and probably most of the Roman emperors.

I've always seen education as being more about lighting lamps than filling buckets, but the education system seems to be heading in the other direction.

lvader

If I want to calculate compound interest I google compound interest calculator. I don't think is cleaver or particulary useful to learn stuff that can be more easily done with a tool.

gadgetmind

Lokolo wrote: »

Ask me the make up of a cell and I could only tell you the nucleus!

I didn't do Biology at A level, but I've helped my daughter revise it, and can bore for my country!

By all means, I remember quadratic formula, compound interest etc. but that's only because I enjoyed it (wow, I sound a little sad from that!)

Hey, I recently had to integrate something, and out popped a quadratic!

"Hello, old friend, I never expected to meet you again!"

jem16

seriousDFW wrote: »

Often primary teachers don't teach maths effectively because it's not their specialist area, and the problem is then compounded, no pun intended, as this can happen year on year. Primary schools could deploy specialist maths teachers, I know lots who would love this role.

You could say that of any area in the Primary curriculum but where would you draw the line?

To be honest though there are areas in Primary that would benefit from specialist teachers but Maths isn't one of them. In one Primary class you will have 3 Maths groups which sometimes have a range over 2 years. Would a specialist Maths teacher cope with that ability range?

seriousDFW

Goodness I wish it was as easy as just explaining something and then kids understanding it. It really is NOT that simple, as Lokolo pointed out. Concepts take different amounts of time for different people to take on board, and in a class of up to 35 children, getting every child to understand everything isn't easy.

Most topics need to be revisited many times before they are cemented. Of course there are pupils who pick things up instantly, and unfortunately there are others who will never grasp some things.

Also, they may spend thousands of hours at school, but maths forms only a fraction of that time, and before you get to compound interest, you need to work through a HUGE amount of other material.

Also don't take for granted what some students learn at home. Some children have parents who teach them times tables, using money, telling time, solving proportion problems in recipes, etc etc, but many do not have this, and so time has to be spent covering this stuff instead of the more complex stuff like compound interest.

Student motivation is another huge factor. Can you remember ever feeling like "I just can't be bothered listening to this, wish I was doing something else" and then tuning out to somebody explaining something supposedly important to you? That's what it's like for some students in maths lessons.

Even 'inspiring' teachers don't appeal to all students, who all have different styles and preferences to one another.

It is a hugely complex issue - please don't oversimplify it.

seriousDFW

jem16 wrote: »

You could say that of any area in the Primary curriculum but where would you draw the line?

To be honest though there are areas in Primary that would benefit from specialist teachers but Maths isn't one of them. In one Primary class you will have 3 Maths groups which sometimes have a range over 2 years. Would a specialist Maths teacher cope with that ability range?

I agree that you could say that about any area, that does not make the comments made any less relevant.

What I am talking about is a specialist maths primary teacher - a teacher who is specialist in teaching primary level classes, with the inherent range of ability, and also who has the specialist mathematics subject knowledge.

jem16

seriousDFW wrote: »

What I am talking about is a specialist maths primary teacher - a teacher who is specialist in teaching primary level classes, with the inherent range of ability, and also who has the specialist mathematics subject knowledge.

What kind of specialist maths knowledge would you feel is necessary for primary?