Poor numeracy 'blights the economy and ruins lives'

LydiaJ

It isn't helped either if you come from a family background where the grown-ups in your life are happy to say they're "no good at maths".

Talking of poor primary school teaching... when we were trying to choose a primary school for DS, we visited one and were shown round, including the year 6 classroom. The year 6 teacher was a pleasant person, and came over to say hello and have a chat. When she heard that I was a science teacher, or had been a maths teacher, or something, she made some throw-away comment that I can't precisely remember (it was years ago), but I do know it was said in front of the class and it made it quite clear that she didn't like maths/science. What kind of an example is that? Needless to say, we didn't pick that school for him.

olly300

LydiaJ wrote: »

When she heard that I was a science teacher, or had been a maths teacher, or something, she made some throw-away comment that I can't precisely remember (it was years ago), but I do know it was said in front of the class and it made it quite clear that she didn't like maths/science. What kind of an example is that? Needless to say, we didn't pick that school for him.

The most shocking comments I've heard from female primary school teachers are - "Girls aren't good at Maths anyway".*

Funnily the first primary school teachers I know personally outside a school had degrees in Maths. They are now retired but have been furious with the way education has been going for the last 20 or so years.

*The most derogatory comments I've heard from male primary school teachers has been on class which the kids have always managed to prove them wrong.

tartanterra

When I was at school, the Scottish education system taught both Maths and Arithmetic "O" levels.

If anyone was really struggling with maths, they could still gain a decent understanding of numeracy via arithmetic, which was just the basic maths that gets you through life i.e. multiplication, long division, percentages etc. There was no algebra or sines, cosines and tangents involved - it was simple basic numeracy. And no calculators were allowed either!

Looking back, it was a pretty good idea to ensure all pupils gained a decent grounding in the very basics of maths. I wonder if this system still exists?

Some of the young apprentices I have worked with could certainly have benefited from it.

ash28

I'm not too bad at maths but like another poster it took a test at work to make me realise that I'm actually more than ok. I find mental arithmetic fairly easy and one guy I used to work with used to constantly say - "how do you do that?"

We are bringing up a grandson who is 10 now and in year 6 - funnily enough he finds mental arithmetic and generally working things out in his head not too bad either.

We moved at the back end of last year to a different part of the country - in his last school he used to be constantly told off for doing work in his head and not showing all of his workings on paper - his argument - but I know the answer. (It always seems to be black and white when you're a child). And he thought he was rubbish. And nothing would convince him otherwise.

New school - and after about a month the headmaster said he would be taking him for one to one tutoring in maths for an hour a week - when we told GS that he was going to have tutoring from the headmaster his reply was - "Is that because I'm really bad?" And he was quite upset. It was actually a pleasure to be able to tell him it was because he was really not too shabby.

He can be taught how put his workings down on paper properly - a reasonable ability shouldn't be discouraged in schools just because the child is a bit different in the way they think or go about getting answers.

olly300

ash28 wrote: »

He can be taught how put his workings down on paper properly - a reasonable ability shouldn't be discouraged in schools just because the child is a bit different in the way they think or go about getting answers.

You forget that many primary teachers find Maths and Arithmetic hard themselves.

I have heard many stories over the years from one of my friends' who does supply about how a class teacher sets some work for a class, one child in the class gets the questions all right because this child is good at Maths but the class teacher says they are a few of them are wrong.

This is due to the answers in the book being wrong and the class teacher not being able to work out the answers for themselves.

When I was at school if someone in the class noticed one of answers in the book was wrong the class teacher would work out all the answers to check if any of them were right.

chucknorris

I was amazed when I started lecturing last year when I realised just how widespread this problem is, a lot of my degree students lack basic numeracy skills. This actually happened during a lecture to my students (who were halfway through a degree course):

A student said 'I thought you said that there should be a deduction of 4.2%? But you have multiplied by 0.958!'

I of course replied, 'multiplying by 0.958 is deducting 4.2%, 100 x 0.958 = 95.8 and 100 less 4.2% also = 95.8'

I had to further explain this for at least 2 minutes (on a white board)as at least 20 students (out of 63) declared by a show of hands that they did not understand.

This was one of my first lectures, now I tend to tread more carefully.

wymondham

I don't think you can level 100% of the blame with people.... I have two children at school and if you see some of the rubbish they are learning in maths above what they actually need to know it's very worrying....

DervProf

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If I wanted to actually apply a toothcomb to my electric bill I'd have to sit down with a coffee and spend some time working it out. They certainly don't make it easy. First you have to figure out exactly what your "annual fuel pro saver 17.4 version 2 capped standing charge super saver" discount actually applies to. Then you have to figure out the first units, then the remaining units. Then they throw in a direct debit discount minus paperless billing discount. You then end up with a further overall discount for being on annual fuel pro saver 17.4 version 2 capped standing charge super saver tarrif.

Water bill is incredibly easy, even when there is a change in rates.

There is a reason that the water bill is easy.

I believe you can't shop around for a cheaper water supplier.

Mobile phone, gas, electricity suppliers have to compete, and they know that if it were easy to work out the cheapest supplier prices would probably be lower. Like with the best savings account, the cheapest energy supplier is a constant moving target.

PasturesNew

chewmylegoff wrote: »

i would say that if you can operate a phone you should be able to operate a calculator.

I disagree. I can use a phone, I don't use calculators as I can't use them.

Phone: Dial it wrong, somebody answers and you know you dialled it wrong. Or, it makes a rude noise saying disconnected and you have another go.

Calculator: The number given is your answer.... but if it's wrong you'll never know.

Puddleglum

olly300 wrote: »

Who are "they"?

While now there is a prescribed way of teaching things to primary school children there isn't to older people.

That means once you have left primary school you should get someone who specialises in teaching Maths who should be able to show you a minimum of 3 different ways to think about something.

The only reason most people don't get it is due to very poor primary school teaching they get a fear of Maths.

This isn't helped if you don't come from a family background where you have been expected to do basic chores as a child which also involved doing simple arithmetic.

"They" are, I suppose, the teachers.

I came up through the same Scottish education system as Tartanterra and have an O grade in arithmetic. The reason we were not allowed calculators was because hardly anyone had them when I was 15. I also remember regular Friday sessions in maths which we dubbed "Mr Moir's mental" - the apostrophe can be read anyway you like - 15 minutes and 20 questions of mental arithmetic.

Anyway, my experience of adult learners came one year when I had 3 adult numeracy classes to run and I learnt very quickly that a great many people were disaffected by maths. They had hoped that on leaving school they would be able to forget about it all and move on leaving the shame and embarassment of supposedly simple maths behind them. Functional maths was supposed to overcome the problems associated with this, being maths applied to real situations. In practice however the exams are complicated, lengthy and hard to follow. Because of this people are finding them hard to pass AIUI.

It really is very important that we should all have a reasonable grasp of maths as it underlies so much of our lives and how we go about rectifying the problems - well, I'm blowed if I know!:o