Poor numeracy 'blights the economy and ruins lives'

wotsthat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17224600

Poor numeracy is blighting Britain's economic performance and ruining lives, says a new charity launched to champion better maths skills.

The group, National Numeracy, says millions of people struggle to understand a payslip or a train timetable, or pay a household bill.

Government figures show almost half the working population of England have only primary school maths skills.

A government spokeswoman said poor numeracy was a national scandal.

The new organisation quotes from research which suggest that weak maths skills are linked with an array of poor life outcomes such as prison, unemployment, exclusion from school, poverty and long-term illness.

I've not looked at the research to see whether this situation is being over-egged but I agree with the sentiment of what they are saying and you don't need to look far in real life to see that this is a problem.

If 'millions' can't understand a payslip then what hope do they have of understanding the current financial situation? If these numbers are anywhere near correct it shows the power of the newspaper headline in forming their views.

Graham_Devon

Not sure about the pay slip thing. It's pretty darn basic.

But agree about the bills. If I wanted to actually apply a toothcomb to my electric bill I'd have to sit down with a coffee and spend some time working it out. They certainly don't make it easy. First you have to figure out exactly what your "annual fuel pro saver 17.4 version 2 capped standing charge super saver" discount actually applies to. Then you have to figure out the first units, then the remaining units. Then they throw in a direct debit discount minus paperless billing discount. You then end up with a further overall discount for being on annual fuel pro saver 17.4 version 2 capped standing charge super saver tarrif.

Water bill is incredibly easy, even when there is a change in rates.

Pennywise

I've been saying this for years.

I'm an accountant and far too many times have to spend a lot of time with clients re very basic numeracy issues, such as simple percentages and calculations, etc.

We're not talking about uneducated people here - it's common for knowledge workers such as business consultants, IT contractors, etc to have very poor basic numeracy skills.

wellused

Speaking as one of the many who are not good with numbers I had to smile at the chap on television this morning who said that "unlike people who couldn't read and write people who had difficulty with numbers were not ashamed of the fact". I went to school for 10 years from the age of 5 years old until I left to go to work at 15, so why should I feel "ashamed" of the fact that I can read and write but find numbers daunting? In my opinion it is the education system and the teachers who should feel ashamed for not being able to teach the subject if it is so basic.

vivatifosi

It's something that I find surprising too. I can understand people not being good at algebra or trigonometry, but basic maths is something we all need. When I'm at the library it never ceases to surprise me when relatively well educated people say "crikey, you're good at maths" just because I worked out 12x15p in my head to charge them.

I'm not good at maths. I have an O Level but that's it. However how on earth do people get by without knowing how to do basic stuff, for example:
* Working out which is the cheapest way to buy an item in a supermarket
* Working out the mean average of your bills for budgeting
* Knowing how to work out fractions and percentages
* Being able to do a rough in the head currency conversion when abroad
* Being able to buy enough paint to decorate a room based on the area coverage
* Looking at a job advert for 25 hours a week and a salary of £20,000 for 37 hours (full time) and being able to work out what the pro-rata salary is (with a calculator)

It's very sad. Nobody can become a Money Saving Expert without these very basic tools in their armoury.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

My first "grown up" job (ie not babysitting) was working in a bar. I had to a) memorise the prices of all the drinks and b) add a round up in my head as we had a really old cash register (to match the really old, moany customers). This meant my mental arithmetic was knife sharp; however if you don't regularly exercise this part of the brain it definitely gets flabby and slow. I notice these days that most places have touch screen cash registers that work everything out, even the change. My great aunt used to work in a bookies in the olden days when winning returns had to be worked out by hand. I can't imagine many cashiers would be able to do that now.

If you tell kids that maths is hard, they'll believe you, the same as if you make eating your greens out to be a chore.

wellused

I have just completed the test on the BBC website http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9701000/9701303.stm and I worked through it getting all the answers correct, I still maintain that I find numbers daunting though, maybe it is the sign of a lazy brain as you say.

Pennywise

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

My first "grown up" job (ie not babysitting) was working in a bar. I had to a) memorise the prices of all the drinks and b) add a round up in my head as we had a really old cash register (to match the really old, moany customers). This meant my mental arithmetic was knife sharp; however if you don't regularly exercise this part of the brain it definitely gets flabby and slow. I notice these days that most places have touch screen cash registers that work everything out, even the change. My great aunt used to work in a bookies in the olden days when winning returns had to be worked out by hand. I can't imagine many cashiers would be able to do that now.

If you tell kids that maths is hard, they'll believe you, the same as if you make eating your greens out to be a chore.

When I was 10, my parents bought a shop and I would often serve in it after school and at weekends. We didn't have a till and this was before calculators, so all we had was our head or a piece of paper to add up. You'd be amazed how quickly my mental arithmetic improved. A customer could pile a handful of items on the counter and I'd come up with a total within a few seconds. Then I'd have to quickly work out the change to give them. This was in the days of 1/2p so that added a more complicated dimension. We weighed out loose sweets by the ounce, and had to mentally work out how many ounces a customer could buy for say 10p when that jar was priced at, say, 17 1/2 p per quarter - all without electronic conversion nor prices on the scales.

At 18, I got a job as a trainee accountant, and we only had a couple of adding machines for several people, so again, it was usually a matter of adding up and cross-casting rows and columns of figures in my head. This was long before computers.

When I used to go shopping, I kept a running total of my groceries in my head as I walked around which usually tallied with the till total at the check out. Very handy before credit cards as I had to shop within the amount of cash I had.

None of this is brain surgery. It's just a matter of practice and training yourself. What's more interesting is that without regular practice, you lose this ability. At work, occasionally I'll still add up a business's cash book in my head, just for fun/practice, but it takes a lot longer these days and I find myself having to repeat when I make a mistake. I certainly couldn't do a tally of my shopping walking round Tesco anymore.

I can't believe that people today reach for their calculator (more likely smart phone) to add a couple of numbers or to find 10% of a figure. I wonder whether it's more a matter of laziness rather than inability.

LydiaJ

Numbers should be regarded in the same way as reading words - yes of course it comes more easily to some than to others, but if someone can't do the basic stuff without stress or difficulty, then there's a problem that needs help; it's not just "one of those things" to accept.

chewmylegoff

vivatifosi wrote: »

It's something that I find surprising too. I can understand people not being good at algebra or trigonometry, but basic maths is something we all need. When I'm at the library it never ceases to surprise me when relatively well educated people say "crikey, you're good at maths" just because I worked out 12x15p in my head to charge them.

I'm not good at maths. I have an O Level but that's it. However how on earth do people get by without knowing how to do basic stuff, for example:
* Working out which is the cheapest way to buy an item in a supermarket
* Working out the mean average of your bills for budgeting
* Knowing how to work out fractions and percentages
* Being able to do a rough in the head currency conversion when abroad
* Being able to buy enough paint to decorate a room based on the area coverage
* Looking at a job advert for 25 hours a week and a salary of £20,000 for 37 hours (full time) and being able to work out what the pro-rata salary is (with a calculator)

It's very sad. Nobody can become a Money Saving Expert without these very basic tools in their armoury.

i cannot do maths in my head. even adding two small numbers together takes me quite a while, and subtraction usually goes goes wrong. i can't do times tables as i never learned them, and mental division is out of the question.

despite this i have the following qualifications:

a-level maths (alright, i only got a B, but that's because i got 98% in the pure paper and about 30% in the applied one, because i couldn't 'get' applied maths).

biotechnology bsc, which included a significant amount of fairly complicated maths e.g. fluid dynamics.

ACA qualified with first time passes.

not being able to do it in my head it doesn't seem to have done me too much harm.

i think people get a bit too excited about the ability to add up in one's head.

ILW

Apparently 70% of the population are innumerate. I am proud the be in the 40% that are not.