Poor numeracy 'blights the economy and ruins lives'

worried_jim

wellused wrote: »

I have just completed the test on the BBC website http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9701000/9701303.stm and I worked through it getting all the answers correct, I still maintain that I find numbers daunting though, maybe it is the sign of a lazy brain as you say.

Just done the test. I got the first one wrong. I tried to do it with out looking at the multiple choice answers.
I have GCSE maths grades E, D AND C. I had to do the exam 3 times and for my parents to pay for a private tutor to get me to a grade C.
The standard of maths education for me from 1988 to 1991 was absolutely shocking- to this day is makes me angry when I think about it. I knew and could do more when I was 12 then I did at 17.
Every job I have ever done has been maths related, fortunately I have to use the same equations every day but if I need a new one or have a new problem to work out such as-

Q1. To clean a work surface, how much bleach is needed in half a litre of water?
CONCENTRATED BLEACH
Use diluted
- for work surfaces and basins (40ml bleach in five litres water)
- for bleaching whites (20ml bleach in five litres water)
- Soak for no longer than 45 minutes, rinse thoroughly

I have to go to a quiet room with a pen and paper and as in the above case (which I still got wrong as I said the answer was 2ml) sit there for about five minutes mentally trying to work it out in the most basic fashion with my eyes closed and it physically hurts me- it will give me a head ache and my breathing changes.

I recently got a promotion and had to sit a maths exam. After I felt drained but called my Mum and thanked her for paying for that tutor as I am confident with out I would have never have got the new job.

As this problem effects so many adults (I am 38 now) I squarely blame the education system (in the same way I blame it for our collective poor ability to speak French-don't get me started on that one) and the poor teaching methods. I loved Maths until the age of 14 and then I just didn't get it anymore when I changed schools.

By the way- I work for a bank.

ILW

When recruiting some time ago, we set what seemed a pretty simple but vital question as follows:

A product sells at £10.00 and costs £6.00

What is the gross profit (as a percentage of selling price)?

If you gave a 10% discount, what percentage of the profit have you given away?

Over half could not come up with the answer.

sparklefrog

chewmylegoff wrote: »

to be honest, if i was calculating a drug dosage that i was giving to someone else, i would check it on a calculator and probably an abacus as well, no matter how straightforward the calculation was.

Its not the using a calculator bit that bothers me, its the multiplying the answer by 1
and most of these people went through university and still don't grasp that multiplying anything by 1 doesn't change the answer

Callie22

I wouldn't say that my maths skills are brilliant, but I've always enjoyed maths (despite some really poor teaching at secondary school). Things like addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and calculating percentages in my head aren't a problem - I used to have a Saturday job in a bakery where we were exepected to work out bills in our heads and when you're doing a lot of that, you do get really good at adding things up!

When I was a student I applied for a Sunday job in Smiths, stacking bookshelves - part of the interview involved a maths test. I was really surprised when the day after they rang up and offered me a full time job cashing up and checking accounts in what was then one of the largest stores in the UK - apparently I was one of the only people to have ever completed the maths test and got it all right. It was very strange to hear that when you've never really considered yourself 'mathematical'!

Degenerate

ILW wrote: »

Corrected.

You don't use scientific order of precedence for your mental arithmetic?

Degenerate

kabayiri wrote: »

I have a confession related to Maths.

Some time back there was a thread in this forum about an 11+ question. It involved a circle of specified diameter rotating its way around the outer perimeter of an equilateral triangle. 'How many rotations?' was the question.

I enjoyed the question, and set it as a challenge to 2 different sets of maths teachers during the open evening tour at secondary school.

I was dismayed that only one of the 4 teachers managed to half guess the answer, the others got it just plain wrong.

My DH explained that I was 'persecuting' said teachers. Hmm, go figure! I shall probably rot in Maths Hell.

Good God.

Pi x circle diameter = circumference

3 x triangle side length = journey

(If the triangle side length wasn't given then it should be possible to work out with basic trigonometry from whatever information was)

journey

---

= rotations
circumference

You weren't persecuting anyone. Anyone that can't solve a basic question like that has no business teaching maths at any level.

kabayiri

Degenerate wrote: »

Good God.

Pi x circle diameter = circumference

3 x triangle side length = journey

(If the triangle side length wasn't given then it should be possible to work out with basic trigonometry from whatever information was)

journey

---

= rotations
circumference

You weren't persecuting anyone. Anyone that can't solve a basic question like that has no business teaching maths at any level.

Ahh, but as the circle reaches each apex it has to perform a further 120 degrees of rotation. And since it's journey involves passing through 3 of these apex, that adds an extra 360 degrees (in total 1 additional full rotation).

To be fair, its the kind of question you have to see in diagrammatic form.

nearlynew

I have never heard a so-called intelligent person say that they are cr4p at English.

Yet I have heard many so-called intelligent person say that they are cr4p at maths.

There doesn't seem to be the same "stigma" attached to having poor maths skills.
In fact, it is often worn as a badge of honour and is apparently very common.


Perhaps this lack of basic numeracy skills explains why so many people want "the banks to start lending again"

Degenerate

kabayiri wrote: »

Ahh, but as the circle reaches each apex it has to perform a further 120 degrees of rotation. And since it's journey involves passing through 3 of these apex, that adds an extra 360 degrees (in total 1 additional full rotation).

I took "rotation" to mean revolutions of the circle around it's centre. It doesn't rotate around the apexes, it orbits them. OTOH, if the same point on the circumference must remain in contact with the apex as it orbits, then this does imply a 120 degree rotation as you suggest.

I agree that you'd have to see the question as originally laid out.

olly300

Puddleglum wrote: »

I think that part of the problem is that basic maths is just that, basic maths. If you haven't got it by the age of 9 then they keep trying to teach you the same stuff in the same way at the age of 10, 11, 12..... At the age of 16 when you did not manage to gain a C at GCSE they carry on teaching you the same basic maths in the same way under the guise of an adult numeracy programme. Is it really any wonder that people prefer to say "oh, I'm no good at maths, me" and avoid the subject if possible?

Who are "they"?

While now there is a prescribed way of teaching things to primary school children there isn't to older people.

That means once you have left primary school you should get someone who specialises in teaching Maths who should be able to show you a minimum of 3 different ways to think about something.

The only reason most people don't get it is due to very poor primary school teaching they get a fear of Maths.

This isn't helped if you don't come from a family background where you have been expected to do basic chores as a child which also involved doing simple arithmetic.