Dogs/pup from a shelter

krlyr

vickynleon wrote: »

you should be careful getting a dog older than a puppy because they are in a dogs home/shelter for a reason, it may be a genuine reason and no fault of their own but they may also have bitten in the past but people will lie and say the dog is gentle.

And that's why a decent rescue will assess a dog in a home environment over a period of time with various factors (kids, cats, etc), to get a good idea of these things. Even a puppy isn't predictable, my dog was a puppy raised by us and she still ended up getting snappy near the end of her life because she was in pain. A dodgy breeder or a dodgy rescue, both exist and both can lead to problems. Even good rescues or breeders cannot guarantee the perfect dog - they are living things so we cannot predict how they will act every minute of their lives.

gettingready wrote: »

I would say with cat/s a puppy is the only sensible choice.

Not really, a rescue dog raised or assessed with cats would be another sensible choice. A puppy from a breed with a high prey drive could be riskier than an adult dog with no drive to chase/kill at all - e.g. Huskies are ones that can be iffy with cats even if raised with them.

krlyr

con1888 wrote: »

A friend has put me in touch with someone who has pups. They are her family pets, both mother and father can be seen. The pups are only 10 days old at the moment and a £50 deposit secures them which is paid in person when the buyer goes to visit the puppies, they can then be visited as many times as the buyer wishes. The person has advised they get their 1st jag and their health check before they will be ready to go home.

What questions do I need to ask ? Does a health check usually include the hip scoring or do I need to ask for this aswell?

con1888 wrote: »

The first ones I mention are wanting £350 with a £50 deposit. Second lot I haven't received a reply yet, it stated £POA.

Red flags here are
a) family pets. Good chance they're one of the breeders I mentioned earlier - breeding because they know x, y and z will take pups, or they like the experience, or they want the money.
b) they have the mother and father. A reputable breeder will usually only have the mother. To improve the breed they want to breed her with the best stud dog out there - and it's unlikely that they will own the best match for her themselves. I know it's advised that you ask to see both parents but you can't really tell much from a physical look at them, it just can rule out the breeder being a puppy farm dealer (though some people just get any old dogs in to show you and claim they're the parents, so it's not foolproof) but seeing them doesn't guarantee the puppies' health
c) they're 10 days old and still sounds like there's more than one available. A good breeder will have a waiting list before they even pair up the parents to breed, and if their reputation is good, they will have more homes than they will pups - so if one owner drops out, the pup is offered to next on the list. Sometimes it can work out that a good breeder has one or two puppies available - e.g. the potential owners of two females drop out and the next in line only want a male, or they're not ready for a dog for another 6 months, or whatever, but I would be concerned that they do not have all the pups accounted for or that the story isn't "so and so has pups and one's just cropped up as reavailable if you're interested".
d) health check doesn't count for much. This means nothing. Who's checking their health, are they going to look at the pups, say there are no external symptoms and voila, their health has been checked? Or is literally popping the puppies to the vet for a 10 minute appointment to have their heart & lungs listened to, brief glance over and deemed OK? Bear in mind that even puppyfarms offer "health checked" and jabbed puppies - many vets will do it just so that they know the pups have had a brief check and a jab and that's better than nothing. A health check doesn't guarantee that their hips are in good shape or that they won't develop a problem a week, a month, a year down the line. It's like you going to your GP and having him look you over in the office - he might spot some swollen glands or an odd rash on your leg but he's not going to detect an iron deficiency or a heart disease. Hip scoring is done totaly seperately and I believe you can look up scores online if you know the parents' show names (this is why papers can be handy - doesn't guarantee good health but makes them and their ancestors tracable) to confirm it has actually been done - some breeders will lie or even fake paperwork.
e) the price. Seems very low - reputable breeders charge a lot for good reason, it costs a lot to breed. Stud fees for the best stud dog they can find, health tests on the mum, the best diet, veterinary care and all the equipment I mentioned for socialising puppies to different textures, etc., the money incase an emergency caesarian is needed and so on. Not to mention the time dedicated to raising these puppies properly, it can be a fulltime job for some and they need to earn a decent wage post-costs. I'm not saying that waving £1k around and buying the most expensive puppy you can find will guarantee it's from a good breeder and of good health, but it's a bit like buying a new car or a new house - if it's that cheap, why? Is the engine going to fall out in 6 months time? Will you find a major damp problem when you move in? In this society, things are often cheap for a reason - with puppies, it's often because the breeder has scrimped costs so can afford to charge less and still make a profit, and want to undercut the "going rate" to get more "customers"

The links I posted earlier listed soem good questions to ask. Some basics I would go for that can flag up other signs they're not a great breeder would be if they're KC registered - like I said, the registration itself does not guarantee good health but it means they're part of a large organisation that allows ancestors to be traced so you can do some more digging. Ignore other organisations, there are a few out there that offer papers and are popular amongst BYBs etc. as they can offer "pedigree papers" - which aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Ask what age the pups are available. Anything less than 8 weeks should worry you. At 6 weeks, the pups are too young to go to a new home and you risk behavioural problems because they are not mentally developed enough to leave mum.
What socialisation they've done with puppies, as said, introducing them to all kinds of things will help produce a balanced puppy.
What are they feeding them? Good nutrition from the moment they started growing in Mum's womb will help to ensure they develop as they should. Deficiencies can go on to cause a lifetime of problems, e.g. weaker joints more prone to hip dysplasia. If the breeder is skimping on diet, what else are they skimping on?
If they're keep contact with you, and if they kept contact with owner sof previous litters. If this is a one-off litter, that's another red flag. A sign they're breeding just because they can, not because they have a greater aim to improve the GSD as a breed. If they have bred before, did they stay in contact with the owners of all the puppies to ensure no health problems cropped up in that litter? Will they expect you to report back any problems? If not, why not? Do they not care if your pup develops hip dysplasia which could indicate that it's not a good idea to breed from that line of GSDs?
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/good_breeder

Please, take a step back and research breeders if you want to go down the puppy route. You've already contacted two breeders of puppies, you are not taking this slowly. You may have this pup for the next 14 years if you're lucky, take a few weeks to make the decision properly! I'm not saying this to nag but from experience, the "cheap" option will not only cost you a fortune in the long run but it will bring a lot of heartbreak with it too. Look to see if there are any dog shows you could go to in your area to start making contacts in doggy circles, this will be far better than searching on free ad websites. Find some breeders, quiz them, be prepared to go on a waiting list rather than getting a puppy right there and then. It will be worth it in the long run when your puppy has a brilliant temperament and great health for the rest of its life.

Your mention of the £POA ones - are you finding them on Gumtree? It sounds more like a classified ad to me - a breeder may not post prices on their website but this would be discussed with you when you enquired, I can't imagine many good breeders wording it as POA.

vickynleon

krlyr wrote: »

And that's why a decent rescue will assess a dog in a home environment over a period of time with various factors (kids, cats, etc), to get a good idea of these things. Even a puppy isn't predictable, my dog was a puppy raised by us and she still ended up getting snappy near the end of her life because she was in pain. A dodgy breeder or a dodgy rescue, both exist and both can lead to problems. Even good rescues or breeders cannot guarantee the perfect dog - they are living things so we cannot predict how they will act every minute of their lives.


it wouldnt of made a difference if he had been assessed in the house because he seemed a lovely little thing to start with and wasnt nasty at all until the day my cousin came with a hat on, i can understand what you mean because my parents dog was the same, she was 15 year old and had to go through an operation and she got nippy when i was giving her her medicine and she had never bitten before but there is less chance and you know that they havent had the chance to be mis-treated or bitten.

charlearose

if you like bigger dogs or dogs like boxers have a look the douge de bordeaux rescue they often have lovely older dogs that need rescuing
i have 4 douge de bordeauxs and two bullmastiffs and they are fabulous lovely dogs great with kids and the sleep all day long dont needs loads of exercise just a nice sofa to sleep on