Penalty fare on FGW

mwian

I have to add that Passenger Focus were a pleasure to deal with. They were very prompt to reply to letters sent to them.

dt3887

the problem they have is... yes the ticket was bought, there isnt a doubt about that, BUT your gf, in their opinion, oculd have then sold that ticket on, or gave the ticket to someone else.

mwian

dt3887 wrote: »

the problem they have is... yes the ticket was bought, there isnt a doubt about that, BUT your gf, in their opinion, oculd have then sold that ticket on, or gave the ticket to someone else.

She could have sold it/passed it on, yes....but the person trying to use the ticket would need a rail card, a child and the child's part of the ticket when asked to produce a ticket. They wouldn't have had a rail card, nor the child's part of the ticket.

The ticket inspector saw that she had the tickets going to the station and the return ticket for the child. She was a fairly regular traveller on that journey and as such, most of the conductors know her and due to knowing her, could also vouch that she always purchased tickets.

Everything was produced to the inspector but he still chose to give out a penalty fare.

To add insult to injury. The statement of facts from FGW accused my GF of using the trains without intending to pay the fare.

WickedWolfie

give_them_FA wrote: »

Why didn't you just give a false name and address, lol? Did I say that.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Er....perhaps because the OP had a railcard which will be registered to his/her real name and address?

Oh, and the fact that they can check, and giving a false name and address would most likely result in the British Transport Police being called and the OP being arrested?

WickedWolfie

mwian wrote: »

She could have sold it/passed it on, yes....but the person trying to use the ticket would need a rail card, a child and the child's part of the ticket when asked to produce a ticket. They wouldn't have had a rail card, nor the child's part of the ticket.

The ticket inspector saw that she had the tickets going to the station and the return ticket for the child. She was a fairly regular traveller on that journey and as such, most of the conductors know her and due to knowing her, could also vouch that she always purchased tickets.

Everything was produced to the inspector but he still chose to give out a penalty fare.

To add insult to injury. The statement of facts from FGW accused my GF of using the trains without intending to pay the fare.

The reality is, whther you like it or not, you were lucky. Failure to produce a valid ticket on demand by an authorised staff member is an absolute offence. Proof that you may have purchased a ticket does not mitigate that failure. I suspect that they have, at their discretion, waived the charge on this occassion for the reasons you give. Many train operating companies (eg First Capital Connect) would not have done so and would have prosecuted. Do I think this is fair - not really, BUT it is the reality of the legal situation. If you have doubts look at many similar cases on RailUK Forum.

Stigy

Missed this one.

mwian, as 'out of order' as it might seem, the PFN was issued in accordance with the rules, and I'd imagine FGW didn't want the hassle of Passenger Focus or something. Having a child helped I'm sure, as the joke that is the Daily Mail would have loved that one, lol!

You got lucky to be honest, as FGW can and would have taken your Girlfriend to Court, not for the unpaid PF (which in itself is civil), but for the Strict Liability Byelaw (18(1) more than likely), which is criminal and heard by Magistrates or a District Judge. Strict Liability means there's no need to prove any intent to avoid payment etc, and by actions alone, a guilty verdict is inevitable!

The fact remains that a ticket, and ONLY a ticket is acceptable (not the outward portion on a return journey...Or a receipt), this is common sense really, as you could have given the ticket to somebody else to use (people do!), irrespective is the fact that a rail card is needed to validate the ticket, as a fare evader isn't going to mind trying their luck without one.

Unfortunately in this day and age, it pays for staff to be suspicious as a rule, and I find the those who are get the best results. The PFN is a deterrent...a slap on the wrist if you will, therefore the staff concerned probably knew it was a mistake, otherwise, they'd probably have reported you for summons on the spot. The rules is the rules, as they say!

Sir_Roger_deLodger

WickedWolfie wrote: »

Oh, and the fact that they can check, and giving a false name and address would most likely result in the British Transport Police being called and the OP being arrested?

What if someone gave a genuine name and address, that happened to belong to someone else?

Stigy

Sir_Roger_deLodger wrote: »

What if someone gave a genuine name and address, that happened to belong to someone else?

People usually aren't intelligent enough to give false details that convincingly! Of course if there's nobody registered at the address, it's a lot easier to get away with, but a decent RPI will usually be able to get the truth eventually.