Free Energy

superscaper

thor wrote:

I seriously doubt that scientists think the surface of the Sun is hotter than it's center. The Sun's surface is at 6000 Kelvin with the Corona above it considerably hotter at 2 or 3 million K upto perhaps 10million K. The center is at an incredible 15Million K and that is as hot as you can get in our Sun.

That's why I was asking where he'd heard it?

moonrakerz

Talking about fusion -

Back in the 1950s a group of very eminent and respected British scientists said that they were "90% certain" that they had achieved fusion (other than in an H bomb !)
The big recent report on global warming said that they were 90% certain that man's activities were the cause of global warming.

They haven't managed fusion yet - so don't throw away your winter woolies just yet !

superscaper

moonrakerz wrote:

Talking about fusion -

Back in the 1950s a group of very eminent and respected British scientists said that they were "90% certain" that they had achieved fusion (other than in an H bomb !)
The big recent report on global warming said that they were 90% certain that man's activities were the cause of global warming.

They haven't managed fusion yet - so don't throw away your winter woolies just yet !

Well that whole 90% thing also reminds me of a quote by someone that although the concensus of scientists believe global warming is caused by man, "Concensus" is NOT a scientific word. There's no scientific proof, just opinion by the majority of admittedly very clever scientists which isn't the same thing as science. There are fusion reactors in the world today just very experimental and nowhere near usable as power generation. I love this quote though:
"There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement" - Lord Kelvin
This was in 1900 (Kelvin a very brilliant eminent scientist) before the discovery of the relativity, quantum mechanics, laser ......

marleyboy

Brilliant qoute, imagine the complexity of measurements, with fractals, they say the more accurate you measure, the bigger the mass. This has been proven, using coastlines as a form of measuremant. incidently it was Nasa scientists whom came up with the notion of the Sun's surface. although we are still a long way from cracking the nut of nature, with the discovery of atomic particles behaviour (in as much as scientists term the atom to relate to its surroundings) moreso that it kind of "interacts" with an observer, and has a noticeable effect. Many scientists now side with the idea that there most be more to nature, than that which is just physics.

thor

marleyboy wrote:

(in as much as scientists term the atom to relate to its surroundings) moreso that it kind of "interacts" with an observer, and has a noticeable effect.

That is Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

Quantum physics just blows my mind and talkng of quotes here are a couple from world famous scientists illustrating what I think of this branch of science

Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington
"Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."


Niels Bohr came out with something along the lines of
"Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it"

Also QP is even more successful experimentally than Einsteins's Relativety.

marleyboy

thor wrote:

"Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."
[/yquote] Thats gotta be one of my favourites upto now

wakandem

Whatever it is, and whatever has happened the only free energy we are likely to see is gas that comes out of our backsides. The world was told in the 60's power would be free in a few decades. The oil companies wont stop until they have sqeezed every last drop of oil/profit in the earths crust and then & only then will they utilise other forms of energy. They have probably ran computer simulations on the enviromental impact of burning all the oil on the planet and whether the planet would survive enough for them to carry on making a profit in the aftermath

superscaper

wakandem wrote:

Whatever it is, and whatever has happened the only free energy we are likely to see is gas that comes out of our backsides. The world was told in the 60's power would be free in a few decades. The oil companies wont stop until they have sqeezed every last drop of oil/profit in the earths crust and then & only then will they utilise other forms of energy. They have probably ran computer simulations on the enviromental impact of burning all the oil on the planet and whether the planet would survive enough for them to carry on making a profit in the aftermath

Ahh yes another pipedream: accurate climate simulations. The climate is just too complex to predict with accuracy. Same goes for the weather. I remember it as an example in numerics lectures demonstrating that mathematically you can have the most accurate measurements you can imagine and yet the errors build up so quickly, cumatively, that predicting ahead several days with the weather you get data where the error margins are bigger than the data points. Even with the most powerful supercomputers on Earth, that's why weathermen/women still get it wrong and still can't forecast all that far ahead.

superscaper

thor wrote:

That is Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

Quantum physics just blows my mind and talkng of quotes here are a couple from world famous scientists illustrating what I think of this branch of science

Which is analogous/similar to what happens in quantum states where it is all possibilities until it is observed and then it settles to the observed state. As has been said it isn't just a theoretical trick, it happens in reality and has been proven experimentally. Then you get entanglement. Eg two entangled pair particles, one is say up the other is down, because they are a pair. But because of quantum mechanics, we don't know which is which until we look at them so each is both up and down at the same time. If you look at one and see it is up then the other "automatically" assumes the down state. If you separate the particles over a distance... et voila instantaneous (faster than light) communication and even teleportation. This has already been done experimentally in case anyone thinks I'm off my head. Quantum teleportation was successfully achieved under the Danube river, from one side to the other about three years ago. There's many more bizarre applications as a consequence of quantum effects, just a case of perfecting the technology (still no free energy involved though ).

marleyboy

Yet does not the quantum state, allow the concept of a multiverse. Likewise does this not open the debate of alternate dimensions, where all possibilities are inept, yet with each particle we only observe the one possibilty, the alternate merely composes its opposite, as for the unobserved, which ever way it shoots, be that in some over dimensional state, is it not feasable that it has settled according to the laws of that particular state? Indeed that all its possabilities are still intact, yet limited to the state of the observer.

Indeed it has to be said that it takes a vast amount of energy to quantum teleport. But to say, there is no free energy, ponders the thought about what actually powers the atom. I could imagine if man was to find a solution to FREE energy, the first to grasp its potential would be the military. Unfortunately.