VCS charge

Daeid_Will

Good morning everyone.

Just over a month ago I parked a hire van in the car park opposite my home (this is mini market car park, which i add shares with a pub) over night I received a parking notice (i refuse to use the term PCN, as I don't believe it is). However the white van that placed the ticket stated that I had exceeded the allotted time allowed.

My argument is that this was parked overnight on a Saturday night and moved before 10am on the Sunday. When the mini market opened it's doors. They stated that they came at 8:10 and 9:56, as a matter of dispute I was in the van at 9:50 clearing the ice off the windscreen.

There is no boundary line stating the mini market carpark and the pub (as the pub is free). VCS have only been in for a couple of months atm.

None of the managers of the mini market, or chemist seem to know who is in charge, and finally the £80 charge i think is irresponsible.

I mentioned to the hire company so they knew who to forward any correspondence too, and have since received a "NTO" though again this makes me laugh due to the plain design of this. Having read other threads regarding VCS I plan to simply ignore, strangely enough I received a phone call from someone the other day on the home line, who refused to leave a name and number, though I didn't answer as I was at work, but the phone was answered, I'm beginning to suspect harassment!!

Any thoughts from others would be great, as although I'm refute in my mind, the worry is still there.

Many thanks

taffy056

Yes my thoughts are just to ignore them completely ! Once the hire company has passed on your details they shouldn't be bothering them again, though scammers being scammers they will no doubt go back to them and try and extort money from them with outlandish claims etc , you need to inform the hire company that you refuse authority to pay the scammers anything. Read your T&Cs of hire in regards to fines . Also make sure that the hire company are not charging you an admin fee for passing any letters back to you.

You seem to have your head screwed on with this which is good, don't be swayed by a bunch of chancers trying to get money from you.

give_them_FA

You are absolutely right, it isn't a PCN, there isn't any legal basis for issuing it, and there is absolutely no obligation to pay it.

It is a scam; and from the tone of your post it will be an unsuccessful scam. Don't waste your time quibbling their statements when you can simply ignore the whole thing. Contacting them only gives them the idea that you have taken it seriously and will be considering paying it.... and they will redouble their efforts. If they do phone (unclear how they would have got your number) just say "I owe you nothing" and hang up before they get a chance to reply.

You have done well advising the hire company. All too often they automatically pay it and then try and charge your card, and it's a nuisance to undo. If they are aware this is a scam, then from here on in both of you can just ignore the assorted toilet paper this company and its cronies will send you; until they tire of wasting postage on someone who isn't fooled by their garbage and disappear.

Coupon-mad

I suspect all the letters will go to the hire company first.

So are you certain none of their staff will panic and pay when they see a more impressive looking threatogram from a debt collector or 'Solicitor'?

I am not sure which debt collector letters VCS use as the pics are not up to date on the top thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2214803

But VCS are part of Excel so maybe they will revert to the letters shown under Excel = Roxburghe and 'Graham White Solicitors'. None of their letters are worth reading, and you can ignore them until the cows come home as you won't be going to Court and the hire company are absolutely not liable.

But do they 100% know that? Will they still pass every letter on to you that appear to be from a Solicitor threatening Court? Or will they pay it at some stage, out of the blue, and charge you an admin fee of £30 quid or so on top for the pleasure?

Read this thread, and I would follow this up again now and send the Hire Company some more info as suggested in this thread about a poster with a company car (similar situation in a way except that the charge WAS just paid thoughtlessly by the registered keeper, which could happen to you). There's also a useful Fleet News link on there and a link to a VERY relevant 'Sixt car hire' thread which I posted in my pepipoo username of SchoolRunMum in post #5:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=65302

You can also try sending a 'bring it on' letter in reply to the one you have from VCS, telling them that you have received the letter and that if they allege they have a case against the driver then they must proceed straight to Court without wasting time sending the matter to a debt collector as you will not be replying to any more correspondence and will not accept any added trumped up charges on top of the first one. Say that you have the letter now as you hired the car, but as this allegation can only be taken up with the driver that day you suggest they contact that person, who you will not name.

Give your address, initial and surname but do not sign it with your usual signature (never trust a scammer with your real full details and signature). The reason for that 'bring it on' letter is to try to get the threatograms sent to your address now - it's worth a try but chances are it may not divert them from their choien soft target (the Hire co).

Finally what do your hire t&cs say about 'charges/fines'? Does it say they will charge an admin fee if they 'have to pay a penalty/fine from an authority or Police'? If so then you can point out now (snail mail so it's a written record) to the hire co that this isn't a fine/penalty, the scam company are not a local authority nor the Police and and nor is it their fake 'PCN', it is only yours alone. A personal allegation of breach of contract against YOU, not the car nor its owners. Enclose a copy of the Fleet News article.

They are 100% NOT liable as you know, but IMHO you do need to be proactive again here. Even though you've mention it to them once, they may not be so happy eight tscary hreatograms down the line. I would keep on top of this, a 'wait and see and ignore' approach will not work.

Daeid_Will

Thanks everyone for the above responses.... I remember when I signed the hire document that I am bound for any charges, but I will double check with them today about an admin charge, and make them aware that they shouldn't pay it.

Coupon-mad

Daeid_Will wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the above responses.... I remember when I signed the hire document that I am bound for any charges, but I will double check with them today about an admin charge, and make them aware that they shouldn't pay it.

No, you are falling for the same mistake they do! We've seen lots on here and most hire documents say you are bound for any penalties or fines.

This is neither. The hire t&c wording is important and normally doesn't cover 'charges' from a private company which don't even relate to the car nor involve the owner/keeper. But many Fleets cannot tell the difference so need some printouts or links to explain why. You'll need to be assertive (don't 'ask them', tell them).

Make it clear you will NOT be paying this and will NOT reimbuse them if they do.

Daeid_Will

Hi, further to calling into the Hire company office, they stated that they will never pay any fine and I stated to them that they should never pay it as at the very least it's in dispute (in there eyes). Puts my heart at some ease but think i'll also put this in writing.

give_them_FA

Very wise. If there turns out to be a subsequent dispute, peoples' memories can suddenly get defective...

Daeid_Will

Just to keep everyone going through a similar issue with these daylight robbers....

Got a letter from Roxburghe Debt Collectors on Tuesday, again the gulp in my throat but sticking to my guns. the charge has now gone up to £162.00. The letter states that "We are fully aware of anecdotal information (big word!!) being presented via the internet and on various websites (isn't the internet and websites pretty much the same thing??) and you may feel this guidance is worth following. We strongly urge you to seek independent legal advice rather than rely on these opinions."

Well for starters, I have seeked legal advice which pretty much states what everyone on here is stating, though they couldn't specifically say that much but they were hinting at it.

Of course VCS been a criminal company (if they are infact a company) weren't watching watch dog on the 19th April 2012, where Excel Parking lost a court case for similar reasons.... strangely enough they found that the senior officer of excel was a member of the BPA (British Parking Association for anyone who has yet to research with them) strange I thought with a title like that they would be there to support the individual not the company... appears I'm wrong on that one. Actually just noticed they have got the location wrong.... it wasn't the high street, it was the car park off the high street.

Right now to the best stuff.... when researching on our lovely new abilities of the internet (Maps) found that the post code on the return address was wrong, was infact a shopping centre!! so looked up the street name.... yes it exists but..... Roxburghe House doesn't exist.... and strangely it's a PO box number, so basically it could be someones home:

"A PO Box® is a service you can buy that allows you to collect your mail from your local Royal Mail delivery office, instead of having it delivered. It's useful if you need to manage your mail, if you need to separate items from your normal post, or want to project the right image with a snappy, discreet, new address on your packaging." *

*text extracted from Royal Mail website, all copyright reserved.

So all ends.... I look forward to the court summoning.

Hope everyone has found this somewhat enlightening if not ammusing, my work is done :-)

Stephen_Leak

You learn fast.

I love that phrase, "We are aware of ... information being presented via the internet and on various websites and ... this guidance is worth following". They can get something right.

Excel, the BPA and Simon Renshaw-Smith, the boss of both, are well known to us. I'd post his picture, but the last time I did it just made me want to punch my screen.

give_them_FA

The BPA may try to project the image that they are some sort of independent regulatory body, but they are as much of a fraud as their members. Which isn't surprising as it was they who set it up to further their own interests.

And you can look forward to the "court summoning" all you like. With Roxburghe involved, the ONLY way you will meet them in Court is to sue THEM for harassment.