Hot water problem - am I being dumb?

shaneandhisdog

I'll try to keep this short, mainly because I don't know our boiler system well enough to provide too many details;

We moved into a new house several months ago and our immersion heater element has blown (second time in as many weeks) so now we're left with no hot water until it's replaced, again.

The whole system is pretty old and consists of a boiler and immersion heater tank.

My question is; The boiler heats water for the central heating, so can we also use the boiler to supply hot water to the taps in the absence of a functioning immersion heater?

I find it hard to believe that this isn't a possibililty based on previous properties where we only used the immersion as a backup.

If it is possible I'd really appreciate a bit of experienced advice on how to get it set up. If not then any other troubleshooting tips would be great.

Shane

Canucklehead

Hi.

Post a photo?

Via a website if you have to.

You are looking for a failed motorised valve I would say.

Do you have a programmer?

GSR.

Ectophile

It seems very odd to have a boiler for the central heating which doesn't also do hot water. Perhaps you just need to find the right setting on the controls.

You may be able to tell by looking at the number of pipes going in or out of the hot water tank. If it's just 2 - one at the top and one at the bottom, then there's no way the central heating boiler can heat it.

If there are 2 pipes coming out of the side of the tank, then I would expect these to be connected to the boiler. There may be a 2-way valve somewhere in the plumbing to select whether the hot water goes to the hot tank or the radiators. Or there may not - there are so many different ways of doing hot water and heating.

HappyMJ

Ectophile wrote: »

It seems very odd to have a boiler for the central heating which doesn't also do hot water. Perhaps you just need to find the right setting on the controls.

You may be able to tell by looking at the number of pipes going in or out of the hot water tank. If it's just 2 - one at the top and one at the bottom, then there's no way the central heating boiler can heat it.

If there are 2 pipes coming out of the side of the tank, then I would expect these to be connected to the boiler. There may be a 2-way valve somewhere in the plumbing to select whether the hot water goes to the hot tank or the radiators. Or there may not - there are so many different ways of doing hot water and heating.

Only an electric central heating boiler would not provide indirect hot water as it's more efficient to use direct heat by using an immersion heater. I need photo's as well. If it's gas then the hot water just about always heated indirectly by the boiler as gas is so much cheaper than electric even though a bit of efficiency is lost in the pipes between the boiler and the hot water cylinder.

shaneandhisdog

Yesterday the water started running warm, barely hot enough to bath our baby boy but better than nothing I suppose.

Heres a few pics and a rough diagram sketch, hope they help. Apologies for not posting them sooner but it's a nightmare posting images as a new user! Copy the following into your address bar obviously replacing the red text with the appropriate character to turn it into a URL.

photobucketdotcomforward slashhotwater

Shane

Canucklehead

shaneandhisdog wrote: »

Yesterday the water started running warm, barely hot enough to bath our baby boy but better than nothing I suppose.

Heres a few pics and a rough diagram sketch, hope they help. Apologies for not posting them sooner but it's a nightmare posting images as a new user! Copy the following into your address bar obviously replacing the red text with the appropriate character to turn it into a URL.

https://www.photobucket.com/hotwater

Shane

Hi.

Gravity circulation by the look. Or lack of it.

Not sure what the cylinder stat is for? It would suggest a motorised valve of some description, but could be redundant.

Behind the cylinder is there anything that looks like this?

Might be a sludged up return from the cylinder to boiler or an air lock.

Very dated system,as you say. If you do get the gravity circuit to work the hot water will be very hot, unles you turn the boiler stat down.


GSR.

shaneandhisdog

Canucklehead wrote: »

Behind the cylinder is there anything that looks like this?

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be - looks a bit too modern for this system!

happybiker

Your diagram doesnt look right to me . The pipe on the boiler that is at the top right and cold, should actually be on the bottom boiler right connection and the c/h flow pipe should be the top left one. the system you have drawn would promote sluggish circulation, which brings into play canuckheads suggestion of air lock or blockage I presume the circulator (pump) is cycling on the return pipe pumping towards the boiler?

The hot water temperature would normally be controlled by the boiler thermostat and it looks like the cylinder stat has been added in the circuit as an extra safety (overheat stat) , although it is quite possible that there is a motorised valve hidden on the return pipe somewhere. I would first physically follow the lower l/h (return) pipe on the hot water cylinder right back to the boiler to check for a valve ( or follow the cylinder thermostat wire and see where it ends up.)

Several questions

Has it worked at all whilst you have lived in the house?

What is the make and model of your boiler, does it show signs of being replaced, repiped or re sited ?

I served my apprenticeship in the 1960's when full gravity circulation and clockwork controls were state of the art. Your system is quite sophisticated compared to some systems I worked on then

HappyMJ

Canucklehead wrote: »

Very dated system,as you say. If you do get the gravity circuit to work the hot water will be very hot, unles you turn the boiler stat down.

Very dated? The cylinder is marked as being installed in Dec '96. It's exactly the same setup is mine. It's hardly very dated.

The electric immersion shouldn't be in use at all. The gas boiler should be heating the water. There could be many reasons why it's not doing that. Faulty thermostat? Diverter valves? Anything...

macman

Why has the immersion blown twice in as many weeks? That would indicate a fault in your power supply or circuit that needs investigating-have you contacted whoever changed it?
Having said, that, if the boiler system can provide hot water, you'd be mad to use an immersion-it'll cost about 3.5 times as much to heat a tank of water.

Canucklehead

HappyMJ wrote: »

Very dated? The cylinder is marked as being installed in Dec '96. It's exactly the same setup is mine. It's hardly very dated.

The electric immersion shouldn't be in use at all. The gas boiler should be heating the water. There could be many reasons why it's not doing that. Faulty thermostat? Diverter valves? Anything...

If you have gravity hot water circulation to heat your hot water, with no control over the temperature (other than the boiler stat), then you have a very dated system.

The fact you have Dec '96 on the cylinder only means it was replaced on or around that date. The system is most likely quite a bit older.

GSR.