Oops! Have I made a dreadful mistake with Civil Enforcement Ltd???

playgoer · 22 February 2012 at 6:53PM

I originally posted this as a reply to another thread about Civil Enforcement, but have now put it as a new thread - hope this is OK.
I got a letter in the post from Civil Enforcement on Friday telling me to cough up £150 (or £75 if I pay within 14 days of issue date) for overstaying at a car park the week before. I went to the theatre in the evening and parked in a place I had no idea was restricted to 90 minutes (or restricted in any way) as I'd never been there before. It's a park attached to a couple of fast-food outlets, though why anyone would want to stay outside Domino's or KFC for 90 minutes is beyond me. It was dark, I saw no notices, and stayed 3 hours. But - being a novice at this - I mailed an appeal to them yesterday pointing out that you can't see the notices at night as they're up on poles and not illuminated. I enclosed photos taken during the day and at night (I went back to the car park twice to get these) showing the eye-level view from the driver's seat in roughly the place I had parked the week before - not possible to see the notices - and the view of one notice in daylight (visible) and at night (invisible) as not illuminated or fluorescent. I also mentioned that dazzle from other headlights, and unfamiliarity with the place, meant I was looking what I was doing and not looking for notices on poles that I had no reason to think were there. However, I have admitted I was there! I did point out that had I seen the notices I wouldn't have risked money that, as a pensioner, I haven't got in the first place to risk. My friend, who also parked there, has not received a notice. Any advice as to what I should do if they turn down my appeal? I wish I'd seen this forum before!

Driver8 · 22 February 2012 at 7:28PM

PRIVATE PARKING TICKETS - DON'T PAY!
IT IS NOT A FINE! YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING ILLEGAL!

This is an information page for the thousands of people who receive "tickets" from private companies in the UK ever day at supermarkets, retail parks, and in any other privately-owned carpark.

We are NOT encouraging anybody to openly flout parking restrictions on private land, or to refuse to pay reasonable charges for parking. Landowners have a right to make reasonable charges for the use of their land.

For advice specific to your case, you should visit the forums at http://forums.pepipoo.com or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

1. What you should know about these companies

It is important to remember that private parking companies (or PPCs as they are often called) have NO OFFICIAL POWERS - that's right, none at all! They give out their "tickets" on the basis that you have seen the signs in their car park and that you have therefore agreed to a contract obliging you to pay a certain sum of money.

2. What happens to people who don't pay?

In 99.9% of cases, absolutely NOTHING! The company pays the DVLA £2.50 to get your address, and then sends lots of threatening letters. In the main, these letters can be safely IGNORED. The only way the company can actually force you to pay is by taking you to the small claims court, which costs them even more money. And they are by no means guaranteed to win! And they practically never do.

The two main reasons for this (among others) are the following:

- Only the person DRIVING the car could ever have agreed to any such parking contract. The company can only get the Registered Keeper's address from the DVLA: you don't have to tell them who was driving.

-Many of these charges are so extortionately high that they constitute a penalty, which is unenforceable in a consumer contract.

3. Can they affect my credit rating?

NO! The only way your credit rating could be affected by ignoring private parking companies is if you were taken to court, lost, and then still refused to pay. But they will not take you to court.

IN SHORT

The vast majority of the time, you can safely IGNORE tickets from private parking companies, they are not official fines.

The vast majority of the time, you can safely IGNORE the threatening letters, including those from debt collection agencies.

You DO NOT have to pay a penny of your hard-earned money to these companies. Remember that the chances of being taken to court are very slim indeed.

DO NOT IGNORE COURT PAPERS!
If you receive real court papers from a private parking company (very rare) then you should go to http://forums.pepipoo.com or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences for help defending the claim. Do not be afraid to sign up and ask questions regarding any paperwork you are not sure about.

Don’t believe the above? Watch a solicitor on Watchdog advising you what to do with the scam invoices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

THEY ARE NOT FINES

Only the Police, Courts or Council’s can fine you. NOT a private company, please remember that.

Orford · 22 February 2012 at 8:31PM

playgoer wrote: »

Any advice as to what I should do if they turn down my appeal?

They invariably do, but from now on ignore any letters they send you.
Scroll down here to see in advance what you can expect:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2214803

vax2002 · 22 February 2012 at 8:33PM

playgoer wrote: »

what I should do if they turn down my appeal?

expect a few more letters than normal impersonating authority.

playgoer · 22 February 2012 at 8:33PM

Thanks for pointing me to the other sites. However, all the advice seems to be don't admit you were driving, and I have. This is what's worrying me, a little.
As I didn't see the "restricted parking" signs, does that mean that legally there was no contract in the first place? (Or any other place). The notices only said parking time was restricted; there was no charge for parking. Nor, come to think of it, was there any indication that this was private land; I thought it was just a place where people parked, as there were plenty of other cars there, and designated parking places. I was sent a letter, not given a "ticket" on the windscreen; they had my address and driver details, presumably from the DVLA.

playgoer · 22 February 2012 at 8:35PM

Thanks now to Orford and Vax2002 as well - your replies came while I was writing my reply to Drivr8. I reckon, in any case, no spotty signs, no maky contract?

vax2002 · 22 February 2012 at 8:36PM

You are giving this too much thought.
It is a scam that impersonates authority none of it is real.

playgoer · 22 February 2012 at 8:50PM

vax2002 wrote: »

You are giving this too much thought.
Well, there's been a lot of food for thought on this site for the past couple of hours!
I now feel very well-informed. Thanks to all who've responded to my post, and to all who've put such useful info up on the forum. I'll be telling everyone I know that these Private Parking companies are scammers and should be treated wtih the contempt they deserve.

give_them_FA · 22 February 2012 at 8:54PM

Yes, as I replied to your previous post. There really is nothing to worry about. All they do is try to frighten you into paying, because they have no legal means of getting the money otherwise. In theory they could TRY to take you to Court; but recent experience of those that have tried it is miserable failure.

It would have been better had you not contacted them at all; but, in common with most people who haven't had dealings with the scammers, you thought you were talking to reasonable, honourable people. You are not. It is a Con which, as my friend Vax says, impersonates authority.

They have no more right to fine you than I do. They will only get any money out of you if you submit to their threats. Ignore them and they WILL go away. They always do.

All they could take court action for, even assuming they could overcome the hurdle that their notices were inadequate, is to recover the actual losses suffered. NOT some arbitrary and preposterous sum!

The actual losses suffered here, as it was free parking, are ZERO. Hence they cannot take you to court, though that won't stop them lying about it.

Look on this forum for the thread about the clampers who have just been jailed for activities not dissimilar. Maybe the parking companies stay JUST the right side of legal, but they are chancers who cannot take any money from you.

IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE. It has worked for me over 80 times.

playgoer · 22 February 2012 at 9:04PM

Yes, I saw that about the clampers - I'm impressed by the Scottish approach, declaring it extortion! In fact, I've seen a lot of great stuff this evening. I think I should now declare this correspondence closed, as it's just taking time from other people's problems. Ta again to all.

fil_cad · 22 February 2012 at 9:47PM

Hi playgoer, this is for sure they will REJECT you appeal and for sure they will be counting on you to be a soft touch and help fill there grubby bank account up with your cash! so just read all the advice on here and get confident they are scum of the earth and let them waste there postage sending you begging letters for the next few months, there letters may come in handy if you have a wobbly table ...... wedge the leg and stop the wobble, or if you have a lovely pet hampster shred the rubbish from them and make hampster a lovely free warm bed.