'Consultation over the Gambling Introductory Offer Loopholes board' blog discussion

roscoe3

I would be very sorry to see this go. It's what brought me into the very profitable world of matched betting and taught me nearly everything I now know, thanks to some very clever, helpful people.

Martin clearly states the problem is he does not have a team with enough technical nous to monitor this board and regulate when it crosses the line and therefore goes against the ethos that this site was set up to create. That to me seems like a smokescreen. It wouldn't be hard to either employ or train people within his organisation to do this. They're obviously clever enough to understand the many other moneysaving methods employed, so why not this.

We are exploiting loopholes by businesses to make money; it really is that simple. You read, you understand, you match bet. Like any other loophole in life. If you don't understand you shouldn't be getting involved. Yes - there will always be people who cross the line and their addictive personality takes over but this forum cannot be accused of causing that. For every person who tells us that me/my mate/my cousin etc lost a load of money after starting this, there will be 500 people who have made a lot of risk-free money and got themselves out of a hole. I'm willing to make a bet on that (with the customary lay-off, of course).

So, to Martin. I implore you or one of your team to at least have the decency to investigate the matched betting world so you can make an honest balanced decision on whether this fits in with the ethos of moneysavingexpert.com.

dealer_wins

If Martin is really going to close this board at least ask the bookies for a good few £1000 to close it. Martin is missing a trick here they would pay loads!!!

thelawnet

Babyface81 wrote: »

Surely the Las Vegas sticky thread needs to be considered for closure then? The gambling metropolis of the world is openly discussed.

Las Vegas has a reason to exist beyond gambling. Some of the hotels there don't even have casinos. Lots of great food, you can go to the Grand Canyon, you'd be mad to go there just to gamble.

A poor analogy...

thelawnet

CountryLad wrote: »

Your forum team is no doubt correct in that shutting down this board would make their jobs much easier, but I feel I need to remind you of how much help GIOL can be to people in very difficult circumstances. I don't feel I'm exaggerating to say that to many users this one board can be many times more helpful in getting those users out of their difficulties than all your other boards put together.

By the same argument it can be very harmful to people in very difficult circumstances. Obviously there are pros and cons, but if it's not within the scope of

'Money Saving Expert',

and it seems clear from Martin's comments that it's not, then that's the end of it.

There are lots of sub-forums that COULD be featured on this site. The question is are they 'within scope', and if the aren't, do they cause trouble. The answer to the first one is 'not really', and the answer to the second is 'yes they do', it seems a constant moderation headache, and periodic dramas e.g., with betfair first goal market and so on.

Martin's a big brand, he doesn't need to grubby his hands with scalping bookies....

schiff

Do we not all think with this wake-up call, that we can self regulate as we have never done before?

I vote for a 3-month extension, followed by a review.

Richard019

Would it be beneficial to split the forum?

Have the main bit where just basic offers/loopholes can be put, then have a sub-forum for the more complicated things. I think Credit Cards for example has a Stoozing sub-forum.

The sub-forum on the gambling section could have an announcement/stickie stating that it was only for people who'd been doing the basic things and that they should be sure they were comfortable with everything that was required before trying them.

schiff

MSE_Forum_Manager wrote: »

Hi Folks

Just wanted to clarify at this point that no decision has been taken either way. We hoped by opening this up to consultation - and asking everyone's opinion - we were doing what was best for both forumites and us. However with some of the comments being made, it can feel like at times we can't do right here whichever way we approach it.

However, you guys (as a whole) are the ones who have sent us concerns, and to be clear we've had some from long term power users as well as newbies. > THIS POST < is a great example of the balance we're dealing with.

Overall, we're simply trying to find the right solution, not needlessly kill a community or money making opportunity for our users. Where would be the sense in that for us? On the flip side, there are some great suggestions being made in this thread too and that's what we're looking for so we can make the right decision. This is more complex than simply how many people want it to stay versus those who think it should go - and we are looking for a way through those complex issues. It's your time to have a say, but please be constructive about it.

Finally there are no "outside" pressures in this decision as have been alluded to, in any guise, it's purely something that has come up FROM user abuse reports over time.

The right solution is to allow GIOL to continue. 99% of the people who use it make money, and often sums of money they cannot have believed possible. The PRS debacle is given excessive prominence and is probably at the root of it all. I would guess that there is nobody who has lost/may lose money at PRS, who hasn't made a great deal more than their potential loss elsewhere.

The only way to lose money match betting is to be greedy, stupid or not abiding by the very simple basic rules, which are very clearly set out in the guides. You can never in life legislate for people like that, and it would be a travesty if GIOL was removed on their account.

darloscot

MSE_Dan wrote: »

Hi RedJoker,

This absolutely is a consultation, for all of the reasons explained in detail on the blog.

Many sites wouldn't involve users in decisions such as this - but we 100% believe it is the right thing to do so, so we have.

Dan

HI MSE Dan,

What is the time frame for a decision about this? There will naturally be a migration of experienced users to alternative forums if this is left to drag for weeks. The responses so far have shown an overwelming majority of people that use the forum are in favour of leaving it much as it is. You (MSE Towers) have stated this is pretty much not an option. The issues with splitting or locking parts of the forum are many and will remove much of the community spirit.

Your actions in running this consulation will be to expose newbies to unnecessary risk as you are effectively driving away the regulars that offer the support structure to make this business safe. Hence, an idea of timeframe is needed as letting this drift for another week or two will simply see the migration continue. At least if you tell us this process will run for 1 week or 2 weeks or however long, before a decision is announced (which may be phased in), then people might stay around for a little while to see if the "new" set up will actually meet the needs of the community.

jmcdyre

I think it should be left as it is, or hidden except for registered users.
There's forums for credit cards and loans, which can be just as dangerous.
Maybe a pop up warning that losses can be made if you don't follow the instructions properly, but I think for the money this makes people that do follow the instructions it would be a massive shame if this was shutdown (especially if people end up having to go to other less reputable websites).
Let people accept THEIR risks, if they mess up through their own fault then there's other forums on here to help them out!

HeimRoller

I have thought more and more about this. As I said earlier in this thread it has saved me from gambling. It has taught me that there are no certs in this world. I have an addictive personality and used to gamble more and more. Thought I had a system and once lost a months salary in one night due to alcohol affecting my decision making.
The problem is there are other threads that show how to get cheap alcohol, to me alcohol and gambling do not mix but I carried on. And then I found matched betting. Since then I have made a lot of money by MBing and only ever mug punt small amounts for fun.
I nearly blew this a few months ago, I bought some wine thanks to a link from Martin's weekly email, got drunk and then decided to revert back to the American horses, lost two races at small amounts and then stuck half a months salary on the next race. I wondered what the hell I was doing and was about to cancel the bet (laying) when the odds then dropped and I had an Arb and I laid the bet off again. Suffice to say that the horse lost, if I had not laid it I would have been in financial difficulty. If I did not know about matched betting I would have been in financial difficulty. I was lucky, but at least I knew about MBing and knew I could lay my bet off, I was prepared to make a small loss by laying but got very lucky with the odds shift. But please note, I take full responsibility for my actions here, the alcohol was partly to blame but there is no blame to Martin, I chose to buy the wine, I chose to drink it and I chose to gamble.

But it does beg a question. How many other people have followed links in emails from MSE and then put themself in difficulty?
Take this week, there is a credit card with 0% 7 months for people with bad credit ratings. OK so Martin has put up a disclaimer telling people not to leave a balance on it (we also have a disclaimer on the GIOL forum) but how many people will? How many people wth bad credit ratings will take this card just to get more credit?? How many people will put themselves in serious financial difficulty? Where do we draw the line between what is morally right and morally wrong.