Parking Eye charge at Morrisions Stratford

Bi-Bop

Avis don't pay any fines. They simply reply to the issuer of the letter / fine / PCN and give them the renter's home address so that they can issue the fine to the correct person / address.

Avis then take £30 admin fee out for this and write to you after letting you know that's happened.

Therefore, when I received the PCN from islington council I was able to appeal it.

Anyway, here's my draft letter to Avis based upon your advice adn the Sixt letter. Please let me know your thoughts...

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write in regards to Ref: E428073306 and the Parking Eye Parking charge letter that I have received in relation to my rental of FT12KGP. Date of contravention was 6th June 2012 and the letter issued to Avis was 11th June 2012.

As detailed in this invoice a "Parking Fine" charge of £80 (with £30 extra Parking Eye admin fee, which was £50 + £30 admin if paid before 24th June - before I event received any letter at my home address) was sent to Avis as the registered keeper of the vehicle and £30 admin fee from Avis was deducted from my debit card.

The documentation that you have provided in support of this transaction is a speculative and unenforceable invoice from a private company called Parking Eye Car Park Management for a "Parking Charge Notice" for an "alleged breach of the advertised terms and conditions" on 4th June 2012.

The invoice from Parking Eye specifies the time period in which the car was located in the car park (14:45 – 15:58) and according to the photo attached in Morrisons car park (customers can park for two hours for free). I was not in breach of this alleged breach that took place. As such it is impossible for either myself or for Avis to judge whether or not any breach of Parking Eye’s terms and conditions did in actual fact occur. Furthermore, I have received no follow up letter from Parking Eye, mainly due to the fact that have no statute authority by law to fine me and have tried this in with thousands of customers.

Please refer to this watchdog report regarding parking charges issued by private companies: youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

Car hire/leasing contract terms & conditions usually have a clause about the driver being responsible for fines or penalties. That means legally enforceable fines or penalties from councils, police, train operators and Transport for London.

But this is a speculative invoice from a private company.
I also advise you to refer to Fleet News ...

fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009...s-urged/30698/

... and the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association (BVRLA) guidelines on private parking tickets ...

lmgtfy.com/?q=bvrla+private+parking

In the terms and conditions of hire quoted on your website at avis.co.uk/ProductsServices/Additional-Services/Rental-Agreement/UK-Terms

" 6d) On demand, all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences (including any costs which arise if the vehicle is clamped). Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. If he does not, Renter will be responsible to pay Avis’ reasonable administration charges which arise when Avis deals with these matters.”

The invoice issued by Parking Eye is not a Penalty Charge Notice, nor is it a fine, nor any kind of notification of a traffic offence. It has not been issued by any UK authority and was not issued as a result of a contravention of any current UK traffic legislation. It is therefore not covered under the terms of my rental agreement with Avis and Avis had no authority to charge my debit card for the admin fee as there was no requirement on Avis to take any action on receipt of this invoice.

None of Paragraph 6d relates at all to a private allegation of breach of contract against an individual driver (which = a fake PCN).

Any alleged breach which results in a fake PCN is not an 'offence'.

A PPC is not an 'Authority' (Council or Police or Train Operator would be).

A fake PCN is not a fine.

Avis had no business to deal with the matter. It's not theirs despite the arrival of a letter from a PPC or debt collector. Avis should follow the industry advice from the Lease company Trade Body, the BVRLA, as already linked above.

Avis need to know that this was NEVER a fine, not their liability, not their business and not their excuse to charge me £30 as if it was a real PCN. Just because a piece of paper is dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket doesn't make it so. I have advised my debit card company that my business with Avis is finished and that there is no longer a standing authorisation for Avis to take money from my card to stop Avis being devious enough to try to take £30 any time there is any correspondence from a private company, not an AUTHORITY, regarding a Penalty Parking Charge!

Due to those reasons given above the charges against my debit card were unauthorized, Avis have breached these terms and conditions listed under paragraph 6d and the £30 should be immediately refunded.

I look forward to your response

Regards,



James

taffy056

Can I make a suggestion here, you know those links you have provided, can I suggest you print them out instead of asking them to go to a link, they will not go there trust me.

The_Slithy_Tove

IMO, a bit long and rambling, especially the start, where it is not immediately obvious what your correspondenceis really driving at.

The details of your parking at Morrisons, whether or not you breached there terms is not all that relevant. You shoudl start with the crux of the matter. That is that they have charged you a sum in respect of clause XYZ of the rental agreement. Yet, the PCN from PE is not covered by any part of that clause (as you have stated).

Also, try not to use emotive terms like "fake PCN". Stick to facts, neutral language, while still being firm about what you demand from Avis.

FInally, give them a specific deadline ("immediately" is never achievable, so don't expect or demand it). Tell them that you expect a full refund and notification that they have done so within 7 days (or something).

Coupon-mad

''Date of contravention'' = change to ''Date of allegation''

Check your dates! ''was 6th June 2012'' or was it ''on 4th June 2012.'' You said both versions?

Maybe swap a paragraph round, you said:

''Car hire/leasing contract terms & conditions usually have a clause about the driver being responsible for fines or penalties. That means legally enforceable fines or penalties from councils, police, train operators and Transport for London.

But this is a speculative invoice from a private company.
I also advise you to refer to Fleet News ...

fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009...s-urged/30698/

... and the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association (BVRLA) guidelines on private parking tickets ...

lmgtfy.com/?q=bvrla+private+parking

In the terms and conditions of hire quoted on your website at avis.co.uk/ProductsServices/Additional-Services/Rental-Agreement/UK-Terms

" 6d) On demand, all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences (including any costs which arise if the vehicle is clamped). Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. If he does not, Renter will be responsible to pay Avis’ reasonable administration charges which arise when Avis deals with these matters.”

Maybe in this order reads better:

''Car hire/leasing contract terms & conditions usually have a clause about the driver being responsible for fines or penalties. That means legally enforceable fines or penalties from councils, police, train operators and Transport for London.

In the terms and conditions of hire quoted on your website at avis.co.uk/ProductsServices/Additional-Services/Rental-Agreement/UK-Terms

" 6d) On demand, all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences (including any costs which arise if the vehicle is clamped). Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. If he does not, Renter will be responsible to pay Avis’ reasonable administration charges which arise when Avis deals with these matters.”

But this is a speculative invoice from a private company.
I also advise you to refer to Fleet News ...

fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009...s-urged/30698/

... and the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association (BVRLA) guidelines on private parking tickets ...

lmgtfy.com/?q=bvrla+private+parking''


And this bit

''It's not theirs despite the arrival of a letter from a PPC''

should perhaps be (partly because PPC means nothing outside of MSE forums, it's our shorthand!):

''It's not your liability at all, despite the arrival of a letter from a private parking company who happen to have speculatively trawled the DVLA data on the vehicle I happen to have been driving. This is my private, personal issue to dispute, pay or ignore and has no connection to the car nor to Avis in any shape or form.''



Also I agree with The Slithy Tove, try to make it shorter and more to the point at the start. Short, clear sentences. And we use the term 'fake PCN' to help newbies see it for what it is but maybe it's not as appropriate in your letter to Avis. Maybe 'private invoice' describes it better.

HTH

bazster

Frankly your letter is awful. Throw it away and start again, sticking to the point. Something like this should suffice:

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Your ref: ????????

Your terms and conditions refer to "fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences". The alleged charge from Parking Eye is neither a fine nor a court cost, it is merely a speculative invoice. Nor has any offence been committed or alleged, it is purely a civil matter.

Your T & C's further state that "Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs." Parking Eye is not an authority of any kind, it is merely a company, and there are no fines or costs, merely a speculative invoice.

By levying an unauthorised charge of £30 against my credit card you are in breach of your own Terms and Conditions. I require you to refund this sum to my card within 14 days of receipt of this letter, failing which I will take action without further notice, which may include:

(i) reporting the unauthorised transaction to my credit card company and requiring a refund from them and
(ii) bringing an action against you in the County Court.

Bi-Bop

Hi all,

I haven't received one reply or any correspondence from Avis.

In the meantime, during this same rental period where I also got charged another £30 admin fee from them for a PCN from Islington Council, I have received a letter from from Islington Counci in regard to my second appeal letter, confirming they will take no further action. It was in relation to the famous Riversdale Rd.

Therefore, as I haven't been charged with this notice I should be now writing for the refund of both admin fees from Avis.

Furthermore, I still haven't received anything from the Parking Eye.

Please advise how I should proceed with Avis.

Thanks

James

Is it possible to add attachments here?? I wanted to attach the reply from Islington Council

bazster

Did you send the Letter Before Action with regard to the first one? Did you tell your credit card company that it was an unauthorised transaction and you want your money back?

The procedure should be the same for the second one, because although it's a council ticket the council is not pursuing it, so again there are no "fines or costs" as referred to in the Avis terms.

Bi-Bop

Hi Bazster,

No I didn't send your advised Letter Before Action as I saw your reply too late. I rearranged my letter under the advice of coupon mad's amendments. Also, I haven't notified my debit card company yet as the money had already been debited from my account and I couldn't see how they could help. Do you think I should still notify them.

The fact is that they haven't even replied to my first letter. Should I send a reminder letter or just forward my last one and also add the details of the Islington council no longer pursuing their PCN?

Thanks

James

Coupon-mad

Bi-Bop wrote: »

Hi Bazster,

No I didn't send your advised Letter Before Action as I saw your reply too late. I rearranged my letter under the advice of coupon mad's amendments. Also, I haven't notified my debit card company yet as the money had already been debited from my account and I couldn't see how they could help. Do you think I should still notify them.

The fact is that they haven't even replied to my first letter. Should I send a reminder letter or just forward my last one and also add the details of the Islington council no longer pursuing their PCN?

Thanks

James

You are on MSE after all! You just need to look up Martin's articles on Chargebacks (as regards putting a debit card payment into dispute). I think you have 60 days for VISA chargeback. Why not try, it costs you nothing (as long as it was a VISA debit?).

But do not just phone up, write in and write in AGAIN, get it referred up the line. They will try to fob you off. But you will not be fobbed off! Tell the debit card company that if they reject your chargeback instructions you WILL refer the whole matter to the Financial Services Ombudsman (again, costs you nothing but Banks hate it as it costs them hundreds!).

However, you want BOTH amounts back don't you? The Council one because the PCN was cancelled and the private one because it wasn't even a PCN.

So I would write again to Avis along the lines already suggested by bazster. Then add a paragraph about the real PCN from the Council, the one that was cancelled (attaching proof). Demand a full refund on every count.

Bi-Bop

OK thanks. I'll contact my bank and re write to Avis then