Tenant not paying rent

1981trouble

We let a property through a local agent. Tenant moved in in November on a 6mth ast. Paid first month rent along with 1 months deposit. Next month rent didn't appear, council had lost their HB claim and processed a new one from that date. Council confirmed with us last week that the first HB payment had been made last week yet tenant has not yet paid it to the agency (and denies it has been paid to them). Came to an agreement about the December rent to be paid in weekly installments - made 1st payment and no more since.

I was quite sympathetic to start with but now I am getting incredibly frustrated and we are now struggling financially (house was vacant Aug-Nov so have had no income from it for quite some time and there is maintenence that needs doing that we are finding it hard to cover the cost of it - all of my overtime for the next few months is covering that rather than providing our buffer zone).

Discussed with the agent and the definite intention is a section 21 2 months before the tenancy is up but that still leaves me with quite a few months unpaid rent and another 3 months to go before they are out (even assuming they leave then).

Is there any way of getting them out earlier - looked at section 8's but will that take more than 3 months to go through the system? Can we issue a section 8 basically as a threat but then not go through with it and change to a S21 in 6 weeks time or would that cause problems with the S21? Can we tell them just go by the end of the month and no further action will be taken and write off the losses for the last 3 months?

Also, I am presuming my chances of getting the outstanding rent off them are pretty slim - anything I can do there?
There is a guarantor (who is also fairly narked off to say the least) - do we insist they pay (sorry if that is a dumb question - never had problems with tenants before).

This is so frustrating that someone thinks they can live in someone elses house for free and you can't even turn up and kick them out and claim it back.

G_M

Issue both a S8 for arrears (must be 2+ months at time of issue and at time of hearing) AND a S21.

Belt and braces. Slight extra cost, but you will be covering yourself one way or another.

nikki1520

If the tenant is over 8 weeks in arrears, a lot of councils will arrange to pay the LHA directly to you. Phone and ask them - they will ask for a rent schedule and proof of what has been paid (a copy bank statement for the rent account will be sufficient)

Then you will at least be getting paid until you get rid. Be aware though that if their claim is fraudulent, you will have to repay any amounts paid to you. So if anything hinkey is going on there (working while claiming, claiming single parent but living as a couple etc) be wary.

When you issue the s8, you have to have 8 weeks arrears, and this still needs to be the case at the court date. You can issue this effectively on the date the second months rent is due (assuming it's due monthly!) so for example, rent due Jan 1, not paid - still not paid feb 1 (and the next payment not made) issue a s8 from feb 2nd.

When you go to court, make sure you name the guarantor as well. The district judge will probably institute a payment plan to address the arrears. If this is not adhered to you can apply for enforcement, including regaining possession of the property.

At this point, if you have named the guarantor, and rent is still outstanding, you can instruct the baliffs to collect from them.

In my experience, tenants will often vacate between the first visit from the bailiff (when they give 7 days notice of possession) so that their goods are not distrained against to pay the arrears. In our case, the tenant did a flit, then we had to repay an amount of LHA that had been paid directly to us, even though there was rent outstanding - understandable, as they don't pay it twice (the tenant had already had it) but very frustrating)

BitterAndTwisted

Yep, issue a Section 8 now. This might prompt them to pay down the arrears so that they no longer owe more than two month's rent. You do not have to proceed with the Section 8 to court.

Send a rent-statement now by First-Class post to both the tenant and the guarantor warning them that should the arrears not be cleared by return you will be seeking to recover the rent from the guarantor within, say, seven days.

If the rent is not forthcoming you could contact the Council and arrange for the rent to be paid direct t you but that will need the tenant's agreement. But if their claim turns out to be fraudulent the Council can claim those payments back from you rather than the tenant.

1981trouble

Thanks, will discuss this with the agency, will the S8 affect a S21 to ensure they leave at the end of the ast?

They are now more than 8 weeks in arrears with us but for hb purposes they are 5-6 weeks in arrears so council won't pay to us for a few more weeks but we will definitely be in contact to arrange that - can that be done immediately or will it normally be a typical council backlog of at least a month for the paperwork to go through?

They are on hb and are not earning so I very much doubt we will get anything back from the arrears (a payment plan will probably take years to pay off by which time they will have scarpered!) but my hope is it will scare them into cooperating with future payments.

sonastin

1981trouble wrote: »

Thanks, will discuss this with the agency, will the S8 affect a S21 to ensure they leave at the end of the ast?

They are now more than 8 weeks in arrears with us but for hb purposes they are 5-6 weeks in arrears so council won't pay to us for a few more weeks but we will definitely be in contact to arrange that - can that be done immediately or will it normally be a typical council backlog of at least a month for the paperwork to go through?

They are on hb and are not earning so I very much doubt we will get anything back from the arrears (a payment plan will probably take years to pay off by which time they will have scarpered!) but my hope is it will scare them into cooperating with future payments.

I'm sorry - I'm not understanding where the difference in arrears comes from? Either they are 8 weeks in arrears or they are not? What makes you say "for hb purposes" it is a different time?

It is worth remembering that the s21 doesn't guarantee that they will be out at the end of the AST. You might still need to go to court at then end of the 6 months to get possession - the S21 is only a notice that you intend to seek possession. They might leave on time but they aren't currently showing much regard for their obligations as tenants so it is worth adjusting your expectations so you aren't disappointed if they don't move out when you ask.

1981trouble

Council told us that since the application was lost/never submitted then the date for them being in arrears in terms of housing benefit would start from the date of application (early January) yet the last actual rent payment we received was end of November as end of December missed payment was when the lack of hb became apparent. There is about a 10 day discrepancy between the 2 dates because of christmas bank holidays/closures delaying processes.

You are right about the S21, I am hoping and praying that they will go - I get the impression they are naive and silly as opposed to serial non payers (the guarantor is a parent who is incredibly unimpressed with this so I can't see a serial non payer using a parent if that makes sense).

tbs624

If you have a guarantor agreement (executed as a deed) in place then why are you not pursuing the guarantor now? This is the whole purpose of actually obtaining a guarantor.

It is irrelevant whether the guarantor is "fed up" - you cannot afford to worry over the guarantor's feelings.

If your T seeks advice s/he will be told to get the rent unpaid down to under 2 months in an effort to thwart the S8.

Go for the guarantor, get the S21 Notice served and view the S8 as the back up.

Note that if the T paid you a tenancy deposit and you have not scheme registered it ( & given the T the scheme's "prescribed information") then a S21 will not be valid.

You also need to know that the S21 is merely notice that you intend to seek possession, via the courts if necessary,after the expiry of the Fixed Term. The T can sit tight until you obtain a court order.

vax2002

Now you know why most private landlords dont accept housing benefit claimants , I would also be having a word with the agent in to just how well they vetted these references and why they did not take it from the guarantor and enforce the contract with them.
Quite often you are far better renting the house out yourself with a lower rent than the "market rate" to someone with a good job and previous record of paying rent on time.
You make more money !

tbs624

1981trouble wrote: »

Council told us that since the application was lost/never submitted then the date for them being in arrears in terms of housing benefit would start from the date of application (early January) yet the last actual rent payment we received was end of November as end of December missed payment was when the lack of hb became apparent. There is about a 10 day discrepancy between the 2 dates because of christmas bank holidays/closures delaying processes.

Have you drawn up a formal Rent Statement and provided a copy to both the T & the guarantor, plus the LHA office? ( Copy kept for your own records)

Was the agreement about paying weekly done in writing? - its all evidence that you have given the T an opportunity to sort themselves out. Copy given to guarantor and to LHA office?

1981trouble wrote: »

You are right about the S21, I am hoping and praying that they will go - I get the impression they are naive and silly as opposed to serial non payers (the guarantor is a parent who is incredibly unimpressed with this so I can't see a serial non payer using a parent if that makes sense).

Gordon Bennett! Do not entertain guarantor sob stories about being unimpressed by their own offspring - put your business hat on and formally request that they meet the outstanding rent repayments. It is then up to them to let their son/daughter know just how unimpressed they are and to personally get them to repay the bank of Mum and Dad.

sonastin

So are you saying that HB can only be paid direct to the LL if HB that the T has received is not paid to the LL?

I would have assumed that if the T has rent arrears of more than 8 weeks and the T receives HB then the HB could be paid direct to the LL regardless of when the T became eligible for HB. But it is not an area I am familiar with so happy to be corrected.