Urgently need Advice please!

la12

Hi,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, any advice would be appreciated.

My sisters partner has recently purchased a car from a car dealership for one of my other sisters, on the understanding he would finance the car and she would use the car and pay back the repayments for the loan herself. ( payments are now in arrears)

When he purchased the car, the car finance and all of the paperwork where completed in his name- nothing was put in my sisters name. The car was meant to be delivered to his address on a agreed date and the sales invoice states this, but the car salesman handed over the car to my sister and registered the v5c to my sister as well as Handing over all keepers registration details, service history and the car manual to my sister.

Although he agreed to finance the car - her having all the documentation and the log book was not part of the deal.. ( nothing was signed to say the car could be released or documented in my sisters name) this was 3 months ago. My sisters partner only received the sales invoice on 1st feb when they went to the showroom to collect it, they have constantly contacted the car dealership, asking them about the log books and service history etc - only to be told that they had nothing to worry about because legally the car belonged to them.

They have since found out that she has moved address - not forwarded her new address to them and that she has pulled this scam on another sister not so long ago.. they decided to report the car stolen - told they could not as this was a civil matter? they have also contacted the finance company - only to be told if the stopped paying the finance they would send the bailiffs out. It has caused them so much grieve and they are now in debt to the tune of £22,000 with no car!

Would I be right in thinking that the car salesperson has committed fraud - by releasing the car without their permission?

any advice would be appreciated

thank you in advance.

waynedance

Family's who would have thought it?
You need professional legal advice and quick.

TrickyWicky

la12 wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking that the car salesperson has committed fraud - by releasing the car without their permission?

Odd situation this so You = The Sister / Partner.

I very much doubt it. You're looking to hold the salesman responsible for your family doing the dirty and I'm afraid it won't wash. If it would then everyone would be at it.

Nope, I'm afraid you/they are going to have to deal with this yourself. Bottom line is that you don't do financial deals with your own family unless you have some sort of guarantee as close family / friends are always the first to rip each other off with the "they'll be ok" mentality. The V5 being in the sisters name only makes the entire situation work in her name however if she wants to sell it she'll be stuffed as a HPI check will reveal outstanding finance on the vehicle instantly scaring people away from it (although admittedly there might be some mug who doesn't do a check on it and buys it).

£22k? - You've been mugged properly. I don't know what posseses someone to 'need' a car thats this valuable but taking on finance for someone for a car that is that expensive is one hell of a silly thing to do when you can get a reliable car for £1k. Sounds to me like the sister who's done a runner is one of these who wants to have some sort of status icon and is living beyond her means. That should be the first alarm bell in anyones head!

Your next steps are to find out where she is. Once you have that, then its legal time.

Road_Hog

This is an extremely position and as has been said, you need proper legal advice. There's too much to ask and anyone here would need to see all the documentation. I always tend to find, that you get one version of events given in a situation like this, but one you sit down in front of someone and push them for the exact details, it's never quite as clear cut.

la12

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am another sister, this has happened to my younger sister and her partner.

The full amount of the car was 15,950 with the finance on top over 5 years =[ total amount 22k!

I tried to cut the story short, as you can imagine its a long one...

The reason I asked has the sales person committed fraud, was because he had signed all the documents over to my sister who has now done a runner - even though the finance is not in her name. It has turned out she knew the sales person and it seems they have had a deal going between them.

My point is - because the ( sale person) signed over Vs5 as well as giving her all the documents to the car without it having been agreed by my other sisters partner.

The car was meant to be delivered to their home address and it says this on the sales invoice ( which they only received 13 days ago ) but they released it to the sister that has done the dirty from the forecourt- where would they stand legally? also the finance is in his name - he now has no car and because they don't have the log books it looks as though they have lost out in a bad way..

They can't afford legal action - as they have now been left with a massive debt.

sorry if I sound cryptic - I am still trying to understand this myself!

thank you.

getmore4less

Go to the top man in the dealship complaining you have not yet recieved YOUR CAR ,

was the other sister done by the same sales person.
you need to get these 2 together.

Get the police involved again, try a different station,

do you know who is insuring it?

Find the sister you must know people that know her where does she work, local GP, pub she hangs out at, places she shops. follow the salesman

Not sure if you can do anything with DVLA it seems from the parking threads they are not very helpfull with stolen vehicles and V5 getting applied for in new names.

la12

Thank you for your reply getmore4less.

My sister and her partner have called the car dealership this morning and have asked them for the policy details and service history and all other relevant information that they need for the car, - it seems the dealership have now turned on them and have told them that they cannot release any information and that they now have to put all correspondence in writing... ( it's my understanding - that the information they are requesting should have been given to them) I don't drive so it is hard for me to advice them as I am, not clued up on this subject.

I am dubious that they will receive the car back without a fight as they signed the financial agreement 31st Oct the car was supposed to be released 4th Nov but when they went to dealership they said it was not their and would be delivered but released it to the sister that has done the dirty on the 5th...

would they be able to still say they have not received their car - as technically they have not???

They did report the car stolen and the police have been involved they impounded the car 3 days ago - it was released yesterday to the rat sister???? so they are now waiting for the inspector to return their call - as to why it was released! its one big mess - but it looks like the rat sister has the upper hand as she has all documents and the log book to the car - they only have the financial agreement & sales receipt!

thank you once again

Nearly_Old

la12 wrote: »

Hi,
The car was meant to be delivered to his address on a agreed date and the sales invoice states this, but the car salesman handed over the car to my sister and registered the v5c to my sister as well as Handing over all keepers registration details, service history and the car manual to my sister.

they decided to report the car stolen - told they could not as this was a civil matter?

Presumably as all the paperwork is in her partner's name that includes the sales invoice? If so then this is the only document that can be used to determine ownership - your sister who has taken the car will have a new V5C that states on the front: "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP". As you have found out in reality the vehicle is owned by your sister's partner/the finance company.

I suspect that the police did not want to get involved because of a) the family relationships involved; and b) the involvement of the finance company.

I would suggest that your sister's partner takes a copy of the sales invoice (to prove ownership) to a different police station and simply reports your sister for TWOC (Taking Without [the] Owner's Consent] and also asks for a Crime Reference Number. This will put a flag on the PNC so when your sister drives past a police car using it's ANPR there is a reasonable chance of her being stopped and then it can be taken from there.

Road_Hog

Road_Hog wrote: »

I always tend to find, that you get one version of events given in a situation like this, but one you sit down in front of someone and push them for the exact details, it's never quite as clear cut.

And my point has been proven. Without the exact details it is hard to give you good advice. I know you may not want complete strangers to know all the dirty details, but the upshot of that is, it is difficult to give accurate advice.

Keep pushing the police, insist that it is a criminal matter and that you will make a complaint if they do not act. Keep repeating that it is not a civil matter, it is not a family disagreement and that the car was wrongly given to a third party, when the agreement was to have it delivered and that the dealership appears to have deliberately gone against the instructions of having all the paperwork in someone else's name.

Also, as has been stated. The V5 just means that you are the registered vehicle keeper, not the owner. The sales invoice from the garage will show who is the owner.

Yes, the garage probably has gone into written communication mode only, because they realise that they could potentially be liable, IF the facts you have given us are true.

la12

Nearly_Old wrote: »

Presumably as all the paperwork is in her partner's name that includes the sales invoice? If so then this is the only document that can be used to determine ownership - your sister who has taken the car will have a new V5C that states on the front: "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP". As you have found out in reality the vehicle is owned by your sister's partner/the finance company.

I suspect that the police did not want to get involved because of a) the family relationships involved; and b) the involvement of the finance company.

I would suggest that your sister's partner takes a copy of the sales invoice (to prove ownership) to a different police station and simply reports your sister for TWOC (Taking Without [the] Owner's Consent] and also asks for a Crime Reference Number. This will put a flag on the PNC so when your sister drives past a police car using it's ANPR there is a reasonable chance of her being stopped and then it can be taken from there.

Thank you for your reply

Yes they have the sales invoice - this has the make and model of the car, the date it was meant to be delivered his name and address on it, Reg no etc.

really is this the only proof that they need!?

even though the rat sister has the new keepers docs etc?

This is a great forum and thank you all for all your advice

TrickyWicky

You might aswell try to dispute / cancel the finance agreement in this case. The police will soon want the car if its got £22k of finance outstanding on it!

You watch how long it takes them to seize it and the keys then - she won't get it back either.