Professional Finance people no better than amateurs

sabretoothtigger

In general this argument is unlikely to be true as people are biased to their own viewpoint. Its about as clever as representing yourself in court

MrMalkin

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

people are biased to their own viewpoint.

In other news, the sky is blue and water flows downhill. Thanks for tuning in to Stating the Bleeding Obvious News, we'll be back in an hour.

cloud_dog

HelpWhereIcan wrote: »

Tell you what, let me try again.

Benchmark over 3 years - 76.2

Tracker Alpha: -1.19 = return of 75.01
Active Fund Alpha: 3.67 = return of 79.87

Would that be how you would interpret those figures?
A simple Yes or No with a correction if you would do it differently will do

Oh, come on darkpoo, don't spoil the party, answer the question.

You can even be condescending if you wish to.

Come on.....I'm all ears.....(as Dumbo said to him Mum)

darkpool

Thanks for another valuable input cloud dog

I think we both know that the conversation with SpreadMisrepresentasionsWhereICan is going nowhere. You could answer him if you want?

darkpool

HelpWhereIcan wrote: »

Not at all, just - with your help - discussing the interpretation of that document - a discussion that will help answer most of the queries James raised.

Problem is, you know I'm going somewhere with this but can't work out where and I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Tell you what, let me try again.

Benchmark over 3 years - 76.2

Tracker Alpha: -1.19 = return of 75.01
Active Fund Alpha: 3.67 = return of 79.87

Would that be how you would interpret those figures?
A simple Yes or No with a correction if you would do it differently will do

i think if you have a point to make you should just make it.

it seems to me that if you criticise the financial profession here the IFAs start calling troll, or in this case the IFA is making a long winded way of saying some UTs beat trackers (which most of us know).

earlier you said costs was one way to evaluate unit trusts, what are the other ways?

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

There is also one big big difference between a novice and a self employed/partner IFA. The IFA is putting their own personal finances on the line when they give advice. How many enthusiastic investors would be willing to bet their house that their knowledge is strong enough to match an IFA?

it just seems to me that when someones invests through an IFA the IFA/ financial industry gets their cut each year. If the investment bombs the IFA still gets his money while the customer looks like a muppet.

so i would suggest the IFA is getting a good deal, the customer a less good deal.

It also seems that the only real skill the IFA brings to the table is determining what risk the client is willing to take. The IFA then gets a list of investments suitable for each risk group, then does a copy/ paste excercise.

Lokolo

darkpool wrote: »

it just seems to me that when someones invests through an IFA the IFA/ financial industry gets their cut each year. If the investment bombs the IFA still gets his money while the customer looks like a muppet.

You need to stop with the putting IFAs in the same profile as fund managers and such.

You do not have to pay an IFA annually. If the IFA is on a transaction only, fee basis with trail returned to the investor then the IFA gets money for that one transaction and that's it.

Now if you want to talk about managed funds, yes there will be an annual cost. Would you like to get a one payment from work but then have to work for the next X years for free? The annual fee is there to keep the fund going. Of course not all of the fee the investor pays goes to the fund manager, but that will soon be changing.

darkpool wrote: »

it seems to me that if you criticise the financial profession here the IFAs start calling troll

The reason people call you a troll is because you create arguments and then when people respond to your arguments you say "Don't care, didn't look". The only reason you come onto this forum is to argue. Not to help. Just to annoy people. That is what trolls do.

You are not the first to do so, and I doubt the last.

If you want to look at another troll, look at posts made by someone called lanza. (heres one of his threads)

dunstonh

It also seems that the only real skill the IFA brings to the table is determining what risk the client is willing to take. The IFA then gets a list of investments suitable for each risk group, then does a copy/ paste excercise.

What list is this?

so i would suggest the IFA is getting a good deal, the customer a less good deal.

So, someone that doesnt know what they are doing is going to do better than someone that does is basically what you are saying. Or for those that do have experience but dont the time of inclination, they would be better off not using an IFA even though it may cost them more in time and/or money to do it themselves.

You still do not seem to understand that the IFA is providing service and advice. They are not fund managers.

darkpool

Lokolo wrote: »

The reason people call you a troll is because you create arguments and then when people respond to your arguments you say "Don't care, didn't look". The only reason you come onto this forum is to argue. Not to help. Just to annoy people. That is what trolls do.

ohhh sorry, i thought people called me a troll was because i have some good arguments regarding the value of fund management and no one has any decent* opposing argument.

don't you think it was very good of one of the IFAs to post evidence that only 1.9% of UTs delivered alpha returns?

* as in academic research. not the names of funds that have got lucky in the past.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

So, someone that doesnt know what they are doing is going to do better than someone that does is basically what you are saying. Or for those that do have experience but dont the time of inclination, they would be better off not using an IFA even though it may cost them more in time and/or money to do it themselves.

you got it!!

yeah, someone is likely to be better off in trackers than going to an IFA and being told to pump the lot into UTs