Wrong registration number on PCN

no_spring_chicken

hello maxnana
i have received my third letter from uk parking now. two on uk parking letterheads and one yesterday from debt recovery plus saying i must pay within seven days. i am not paying this i am taking the advice of the people on this forum.

trisontana

This from their website:-

Parking Patrol generates revenue by the administration of parking charge tickets. This means that you do not pay for the problem to be solved, the offenders do!

So they are admitting that the money earned from their "PCN"s does not reflect the actual loss suffered by the landowner/PPC, but is a pure money making exercise contrary to civil law.

vax2002

These are a complicated scam that impersonates authority.
It is very important to keep that focused in your mind.
They will change characters like actors, from parking authority, to debt collecting authority to solicitors authority who are experts and "MAY" sue you in court, even to telephone debt collecting authority, to the final stage of the act, a vanishing act !
When they realise you are not going to be fooled by any impersonation they drum up in the scam.

taffy056

trisontana wrote: »

This from their website:-

Parking Patrol generates revenue by the administration of parking charge tickets. This means that you do not pay for the problem to be solved, the offenders do!

So they are admitting that the money earned from their "PCN"s does not reflect the actual loss suffered by the landowner/PPC, but is a pure money making exercise contrary to civil law.

Yes I noticed that as well as was thinking that they can only claim for direct losses to the landowner, which begs the question how any of these scammers make money, we all know the answer of course on here, but I wonder if a super complaint can be done on all these parking companies and the bpa ?


Also this lot like the word 'offender' it's everywhere on the site, I thought that term was for criminal law, not civil law ?

trisontana

I would't hold out your hopes regarding getting a sensible response from the BPA. I raised a similar question with them regarding the vast amounts of money claimed in the few cases that went to court. Here is their reply:-

I would question the correspondent's calculations of 'genuine pre-estimate of loss' He has failed to factor in the costs of managing the car park including staff and signage/equipment, the office costs of managing the debt recovery process and direct costs such as the fee for DVLA data requests, as well as other costs which a Court would take into consideration when adjudicating on a case.

Of course there are fixed costs involved in running the car-park even if the case never gets to court, and they cannot be included in any court claims. This was demonstrated in the recent Parking Eye case where they were awarded just £15 (the cost of two unpaid P&D tickets).

taffy056

Yes but if an APNR system is in place, how can there be any costs beyond the install of the equipment, these will be monitored from their offices, 1 person could do a hundred car parks, the signage is one off cost for the most part. The recovery process involves letter headed letters normally by their own in house debt collectors. No matter what way you look at things though it doesn't come to the cost they want.

For example a £90 invoice reduced to £60 if paid promptly in a free car park, so what is the loss, £60 or £90 ? Why does it go up suddenly by 50% for example from day 13 to day 14 , do their costs increase suddenly on this magical day ?

vax2002

Signs, cameras, lines, flyers for windscreens are assets of the company.
The only way the company could charge you for its assets is if you agree to purchase them.
The laws states they can only claim incidental losses.
So if you should pay £2.50 and dont this is an incidental loss and they can sue for £2.50
If its free, they can sue for £0.
If no method of payment is offered, then they have not attempted to facilitate payment at source, so can not really ask for it afterwards.
"you can not sue for what you have not asked for"
To get round this councils asked for an act of parliament so they could administer a legal penalty, other wise like the PPC they would only be able to charge for the parking you did not pay for.
Now Private companies have no act of parliament which allows them to charge anything other than what they ask for at source.
If they dont like this, they could always get a bloke with a leather bag and take money from drivers at the gate.
Anything else is smoke and mirrors and trust me if a PPC could charge you for its assets, they would be straight on it.
So NO, they can not charge you the running costs of their business other than what they ask for when you park.

Maxnana

Sorry to ressurect this thread after 7 months, but that's because it has just reared it's ugly head again!

Regarding the initial problem regarding the wrong registration on a PCN stuck to my son's car (please see original post), he has now - after nothing for seven months - received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd who say they are acting for UK Parking Patrol regarding this matter so as to recover the above monies (which has now incidentally increased to £149.99) as payment has not been received.

They go on to say it is essential this payment is received within 7 days, or else the matter will be passed on to their solicitor to commence County Court proceedings.

Is my son still right to ignore this, as it seems to be getting serious now and he's concerned it will affect his credit rating if he gets taken to court.

Just for reference, he has not (on the advice given here) contacted any of the above companies at any stage since the initial PCN, and has kept all correspondance including the original PCN (with the incorrect registration number on).

I would be grateful for any advice that I can pass on to my son, given this development in the matter.

Many thanks.

trisontana

Just keep ignoring. That letter is just another link in the "threatogram" chain.

taffy056

AS I said above about these clowns, they have never taken anyone to court ever, we have the proof from a FOI request to the County Courts that they never went there in 2011 at all, despite these pathetic threats that they will. If they had a case why wait 7 months ? Any company who would have had a legitimate claim would have issued months ago. The advice is to ignore still.