So... how much for a 2-year-old Geely in 2014?

colino

Like the original Hyundais, Daewoos, Kias and Ssanyongs they are cheap and nasty rip offs that, like their predecessors, will hopefully come good in terms of design, quality and innovation. While a part of the trade have to predict future values (for leasing purposes etc) for the Geely I suspect the estimated 3 year residual will be zero. Awful things, cheap and nasty and will only be bought by private motorists getting into their first brand new car or the worst of fleet buyers.

bengalknights

Expect to see 3 year old Geelys become the mainstream private hire vehicle if there cheap to run and found reliable.It could go the same way as skoda popular for being cheap to run.

Lum

mikey72 wrote: »

If every car you own rates 5 stars, fair enough.
If that's what you buy them on.
If you're happy to drive other cars with less than 5 stars, why is this one exceptional?

My family fleet certainly include classics that are unrated.

I own two cars, my partner owns one. The one that sees the bulk of the mileage is the Mondeo which is 5 stars. The other two are too old to be rated.

And of course the cars are engineered to get the highest result in each test.
If ncap decide that the test is worthwhile, it makes sense to engineer a car to pass it. You for one want to see 5 stars, so what's the point of engineering one that isn't safe?

Ahh, but this is the problem. You can't test every possible crash. They only test a handful. Some cars will be engineered to be overall safe in all conditions and some will be designed to focus on the things that NCAP test. It's actually quite similar to the MPG testing which produces figures that few actually achieve in the real world, with some cars (BMW) showing bigger differences than others.

'Michiel van Ratingen, Euro NCAP Secretary General, says ‘These results mark a milestone for the Chinese automotive industry. It is a clear sign that Chinese car makers are building on recent experiences and rapidly investing in better vehicle safety. Even with the upcoming increased demands, five stars are expected to be within reach soon.’

I'm sure they will.

The most comparable cars in the new tests, as opposed to the pre 2009, are the Mazda 6, and the Subaru Legacy, that have very similar scores, but oddly enough, 5 stars as well. So as ncap say, I doubt there's a lot to seeing the 5 stars shortly.

If you look at pre 2009, there is a handful that score the 5 on adult, but not one that scores 5 for adult and child, so even the mondeo is only a 4 for a family car overall.

For me, personally, the safety figures for rear passengers or children don't matter at all, just the front passengers. The test results for the Mondeo are much more appealing than for the Emgrand, especially with that big red marking on the feet. My partner has already all but lost the use of her feet and we're pretty much stuffed if I lose the use of mine too.

It's very easy to dismiss chinese as "rubbish" without looking at what they're doing now.

I am looking at what they're doing now. I don't deny that they're improved, but I don't think they're there yet.

Biglad_3

Another car in this bracket is the Cheverolet Epica, the prices for the 2.0 diesels are stupidly low and most are low mileage FSH.

patman99

I guess the Geely will be the car of choice for cabbies.

jase1

Biglad wrote: »

Another car in this bracket is the Cheverolet Epica, the prices for the 2.0 diesels are stupidly low and most are low mileage FSH.

The Epica is actually quite a decent car for the money you pay for them. I didn't find it any worse than the Vectra to be honest; the build quality is spot on, the drive is very bland but competent (just like the Vectra) and I prefer the look of the thing to the Vectra (the back-end isn't exactly a thing of beauty but still). I'd expect reliability to be on-par with the Vectra seeing as it's fundamentally the same car, and it's bigger so more comfortable.

That said, Daewoo are now pretty well established in the UK, and the residuals, whilst not as strong as the other Koreans (which are more or less the same as mainstream European makes now), aren't catastrophic as such any more, more's the pity :rotfl:

I'm interested in the Chinese tin specifically because they'll be the butt of all the jokes, and will doubtless repeat the same mistake the Japanese and Koreans did of making the interiors adequate rather than plush, and thus "flimsy" to European eyes.

Good range of views, thanks for that. One other thing to think about is that there won't be just three or four brands coming in from China either -- aren't there 50 or 60 car manufacturers over there? If one or two are a success, expect a flood of bargain-basement tin to flood the market.

mikey72

lum wrote: »

i own two cars, my partner owns one. The one that sees the bulk of the mileage is the mondeo which is 5 stars. The other two are too old to be rated.


so you are happy to drive around in a less then 5 star rated car.
at least one of you exclusively normally, if two of the cars have no star rating at all.



ahh, but this is the problem. You can't test every possible crash. They only test a handful. Some cars will be engineered to be overall safe in all conditions and some will be designed to focus on the things that ncap test. It's actually quite similar to the mpg testing which produces figures that few actually achieve in the real world, with some cars (bmw) showing bigger differences than others.

i would expect ford would have primarily designed the mondeo to pass these specific tests with 5 stars.
it would be ludricous to cut out the segment of drivers who would only buy a 5 star ncap rated car.
i have no idea if the mondeo would perform any better, or worse in any equally untested crash that ncap doesn't think is a typical scenario.
but i would think if you give ncap enough credability to insist on buying only a car they give 5 stars to, it doesn't seem that rubbishing the tests as not being representative enough in the nexrt sentence makes any sense.

.




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mikey72

jase1 wrote: »

The Epica is actually quite a decent car for the money you pay for them. I didn't find it any worse than the Vectra to be honest; the build quality is spot on, the drive is very bland but competent (just like the Vectra) and I prefer the look of the thing to the Vectra (the back-end isn't exactly a thing of beauty but still). I'd expect reliability to be on-par with the Vectra seeing as it's fundamentally the same car, and it's bigger so more comfortable.

That said, Daewoo are now pretty well established in the UK, and the residuals, whilst not as strong as the other Koreans (which are more or less the same as mainstream European makes now), aren't catastrophic as such any more, more's the pity :rotfl:

I'm interested in the Chinese tin specifically because they'll be the butt of all the jokes, and will doubtless repeat the same mistake the Japanese and Koreans did of making the interiors adequate rather than plush, and thus "flimsy" to European eyes.

Good range of views, thanks for that. One other thing to think about is that there won't be just three or four brands coming in from China either -- aren't there 50 or 60 car manufacturers over there? If one or two are a success, expect a flood of bargain-basement tin to flood the market.

I've always thought the chinese would never invade the rest of the world, they would never need to.
They'll take it over economically instead.
While we laugh at them doing it.

jase1

I think it's fair to say that there are *no* cars on sale in the UK today that are unsafe in a crash per-se.

I've been in a 30mph crash, in a 2001 car which had no Euro-NCAP rating but a 3-star Australia NCAP rating (same test under same conditions), and walked away with a scratched nose from the airbag deploying.

I would expect that every car currently on-sale is safer than that. I think the obsession with safety is overplayed these days -- if you hit something at 30mph you'll most likely walk away in just about anything; at 60 or 70 you'll be squished. There comes a point where physics takes over.

jase1

mikey72 wrote: »

I've always thought the chinese would never invade the rest of the world, they would never need to.
They'll take it over economically instead.
While we laugh at them doing it.

They're already there when it comes to most things.

I've been astonished at how reliable even the cheapest pieces of (electronic) tat tend to be now.

And the stuff produced with the appropriate quality controls is every bit as good as stuff made in Europe, Japan or Korea.

It's usually the (Western-written) software that causes the gip now.