EDF Fail Ofgem Direct Debit Rules

jalexa

brewerdave wrote: »

I can just imagine what nonsensical algorithms a software designer could think up!!!...and getting them to run on a Commodore 64 ??

Apologies for "pooping" on your "humerous" post, albeit you are making a excellent cutting point.

I struggled last night with some of Terrylw1's post, and may today, but the very first point "when you switch, the new Data Collector for the new supplier gets a previous 12 month consumption data item" is helpful and well made and I suspect not well understood.

Consider this "competition" issue. In my case I compared on my reasonable long term average consumption. The Direct Debit was set (still not sure whether by the supplier or the comparison website) to 1/12 of the annual cost for the compared consumption. All as expected.

Soon however Edf started on "sudden unexplained randomisation".

Eventually, only because I knew to ask and was persistent enough, I established that without my knowledge (or the courtesy of being infomed:() the consumption that was the basis of the quotation had been replaced by the first mechanism Terrylw1 mentions. Further, the expectation of payments being 1/12 of the annual cost had been replaced, without my knowledge (or the courtesy of being infomed:(), by 'short year' calculation for very contrived reason.

Both these "cheats" directly challenge the integrity of the price comparison process.

schrodie

jalexa wrote: »

If you can argue a different figure (or the previous figure) is accurate, or the new figure is not accurate then normally it is not difficult to get the adviser to reinstate the previous figure.

Post some numbers for further advice.

What if their increase is going to cause you financial problems with resect to your household budget. I was under the impression that all reviews are based on previous usage so Ir suppose you could argue that you forthcoming usage will have to be lower due to them wanting to increase your payments.

Also can they legally do it?

Terrylw1

Also on top of some of the points I posted about the industry data, its common for suppliers to use previous estimates in their calculations or even defaults set by them. It really depends on how advanced they build it, not advanced = likely to use defaults, very advanced = likely to use the incoming industry data from their agents which can be wildly out.

Its also word noting that in elec, there is no mechanism to remove consumption other than to replace it. So, a supplier would have to be able to remove data to replace it...it can be very complicated.

Another issue on top of this is that its non compliant to change data older than 14 months old, it becomes crystallised at this point. It can old be changed older than this if the Trading Disputes Council decides to raise a trading dispute. Its usually only extended to 28 months. So, what do a suppliers agents do?...they have to apply negative or positive values into the last 14 months. If a supplier then adds this into consumption, you could appear to be using a negative value of elec or a higher positive one dependant on whether the agent sent a negative or positive value.

So, in building a system, you really need to reje t all this out for someone to check manually...and guess what suppliers don't tend to train their non finance staff on?...you've guessed it, industry settlements processes.

Terrylw1

To make it easier to understand for ele , it works like this...

You switch or have a supply fit. The data all gets set up (meter details, energisation status, agents appointed to service the property, etc), then the Data Collector has to issue a 12 month forecast of the expected supply, known as Estimated Annual Consumption (EAC). The supplier can choose to use this or not in estimation routes.

So at this point, there is no real data. The EAC is also a default industry value. The defaults can be viewed on Elexon's website.

The meter reader goes out and gets a reading which goes back to the Data Collector who has to validate it. If the Data Collector decides its valid, they mark it so and the value goes into their system which causes the EAC to be recalculated to a value that is closer based on the consumption submitted by the meter reader. The Data Collector also produces the consumption between the last firm reading they hold and the reading just taken. This is submitted with the EAC but called an Annualised Advance (AA). This is sent yo the supplier who uses the reading to produce you a bill and they can again choose to load the EAC and AA into their estimation routines.

That's the simple side of it, but might help explain some of my post points.

Worth noting that a supplier would send the default value to the Data Collector for a years forecast when the meter is fit on a new connection or where the meter is changed and the payment type or regime is changed (e.g. E7 to standard rate).

So, you can see how complicated all the values can be going back and forth which is just when it works in the correct way. What the customer won't see is all the data mess...unless it causes a bill to be produced or stops one you expect, causes problems with your switch, etc.

jalexa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

it works like this...

You switch or have a supply fit. The data all gets set up (meter details, energisation status, agents appointed to service the property, etc), then the Data Collector has to issue a 12 month forecast of the expected supply, known as Estimated Annual Consumption (EAC). The supplier can choose to use this or not in estimation routes.

OK but I need some clarification. When I switch with a full 12 months history (with the previous supplier), what reading is transferred to the new supplier? The previous 12 months (nominally AA?) or an EAC?

Then when EAC is made available to the new supplier, is the passed EAC based on the previous 12 months with the old supplier?

Would advance due to previous exceptional weather be stripped out of the new EAC?

So at this point, there is no real data. The EAC is also a default industry value. The defaults can be viewed on Elexon's website.

Being lazy (well the first document I looked at had 73 pages), have you a link to the defaults on the Elexon website?

The meter reader goes out and gets a reading which goes back to the Data Collector who has to validate it. If the Data Collector decides its valid, they mark it so and the value goes into their system which causes the EAC to be recalculated to a value that is closer based on the consumption submitted by the meter reader. The Data Collector also produces the consumption between the last firm reading they hold and the reading just taken. This is submitted with the EAC but called an Annualised Advance (AA). This is sent yo the supplier who uses the reading to produce you a bill and they can again choose to load the EAC and AA into their estimation routines.

That's the simple side of it, but might help explain some of my post points.

Think I follow. The customer issue (for me) is whether my bill is based on EAC or AA (or my customer reads).

I see a huge potential problem here. Actual readings are only required every 1 (or 2?) years but DD reviews are variously being produced quarterly, every 6 months, annually, or (in the case of Edf) on every customer read.

Finally, and this is really bugging me, the supplier gets it money based on the "dodgy DD", but settles based on an accurate AA. Have I got that basically right?

Thanks for your great help.

jalexa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

To make it easier to understand for ele , it works like this...

Another question. Does that procedure refer to gas as well as electricity?

Terrylw1

jalexa wrote: »

OK but I need some clarification. When I switch with a full 12 months history (with the previous supplier), what reading is transferred to the new supplier? The previous 12 months (nominally AA?) or an EAC?

The 12 month history is passed from the previous supplier Data Collector to the new suppliers Data Collector. If you give your reading to the new supplier, it will be entered into the new Data Collectors system and passed to the old Data Collector. The old data collector then produces the Annualised Advance up to the switch date and sends the old supplier the reading to close on along with this AA. They then pass 12 months of consumption up to the switch including the consumption created by the switch reading

Then when EAC is made available to the new supplier, is the passed EAC based on the previous 12 months with the old supplier? Yes, its based on what they hold at the time and until they get a reading or you give your supplier one which they pass on, they have nothing else to go on. This passing of data was created due to deregulation allowing agents to no longer be the original regional ones.

Would advance due to previous exceptional weather be stripped out of the new EAC? If a reading was entered during extreme weather it would increase the EAC for that year, so in the following year if the Data Collector had nothing yet to decrease it, it would feature in the following years EAC. On top of these the Data Collector also applies a seasonal smoothing known as Daily Profile Coefficients (DPC) but I would have to get at my dosc to check that as I don't get into it much.


Being lazy (well the first document I looked at had 73 pages), have you a link to the defaults on the Elexon website? There is a link I can add but it goes to a spreadsheet of data. To be able to find your EAC, you need your Standard Settlement Configuration (SSC) which is a code stating how your meter is set up to work e.g. E7. Its a zero following by 3 extra digits code. You also need your GSP but that easily worked out by the first 2 digits of your MPAN providing your supply wasn't fit in the last 5-6 years (free market distribution allows for out of old region distribution competition so the GSP marker alone shows your national local, before this the MPAN was also tied to the regional distributor. Then you only need your Profile Class (PC), but that's easily worked out as its a mostly a rule unless your have a meter such as heatwise, Warmwise, Supertariff, 3 rate E10, etc in which case its very slightly different. I can easily tell you this from an explanation of your meter but its also on your bill - its the 1st 2 digits of that number above your MPAN.

Think I follow. The customer issue (for me) is whether my bill is based on EAC or AA (or my customer reads).

I see a huge potential problem here. Actual readings are only required every 1 (or 2?) years but DD reviews are variously being produced quarterly, every 6 months, annually, or (in the case of Edf) on every customer read.

Finally, and this is really bugging me, the supplier gets it money based on the "dodgy DD", but settles based on an accurate AA. Have I got that basically right?

Thanks for your great help.

I've added some bold above under your points...I'm on a small tablet PC so its tricky scrolling over this much text! I'll add some further points in another post for that reason.

Terrylw1

When you give your customer reads to the supplier, they can choose to use them or not but should send them to the Data Collector for validation. The Data Collector can choose to fail validation hence doesn't add them it any consumption history and no AA is produced. This obviously effects the EAC and any future year if no other firm readings become validated.

So, if the supplier doesn't send them, the Data Collector gets out of synch. Then the incoming EAC is also not matching so the supplier may need to have a parameter value where they dont care if they are by not much.

Getting as many reads into this settlements process is vital. There was an industry project called the 97% project manager by Elexon over the past 7 years which instructed all suppliers and Data Collectors to get 97% of there data accurate within each region they trade. So, suppliers customer register to and Data Collectors appointed by suppliers. The easiest way to achieve this is the same way everyone on here does, get meter reads - because an EAC is classed just like an estimated bill, whereas an AA is firm data just like your bill issued to a reading you give a meter reader takes.

If no AA's have made it in at 14 months, the supplier is settled to an estimate themselves by the distributor.

How does the distributor create the settlement bill, known as Distribution Use of System charges (DUoS)? Every EAC and/or AA is not only sent to the supplier but a copy is sent to the Data Aggregator who runs checks against the consumption and as long as its OK, it gets into the DUoS, where is negative or excessively high (above Elexon monitoring baseline) it is flagged to a monthly industry report known as Large EAC/AA's and Elexon send out a critical report to all suppliers and Data Collectors to get it sorted and feedback to them. This process is very heavily monitored but it is the tip of the iceberg and any value under Elexons massive tolerences can be entered without challenge, so if a supplier allowed it into their system for estimation, your bill would be sky high.

Terrylw1

jalexa wrote: »

Finally, and this is really bugging me, the supplier gets it money based on the "dodgy DD", but settles based on an accurate AA. Have I got that basically right?

I've answered this above but one last point, if the supplier doesn't match settlement bills to your bills, they could out and they could be overpaying or under paying. This issue was never really dealt with at deregulation so to say there could be large differences between payed and billed energy.

If you don't provide your new supplier with a reading on a switch, the Data Collector has to estimate one, known Deeming...and this is only based on the data they hold from all of this process. If meter change readings go missing or are clearly incorrect, they also have to Deem. They also Deem a half way point reading if they can't produce an AA after 720 days and only to get settlement firm...although its only still an estimate.

Note that a reading has to be Validated to create an AA and affect the EAC. If the reading is not inside tolerences based on their history, it will be Failed.the most common failure is "twice expected advance" which is easily caused by change in occupancy, fitting high kW devices, etc. The supplier can use a Failed read but they must get it Validated,but the Data Collector can refuse leaving the supplier to not bother as they and the customer match or end up at contract dispute stages. This is a big problem and with settlement hardly being known outside of finance/compliance circles until recent years, your typical member of staff wouldn't even know to do it, hence you get out of synch.

Also worth noting that the old supplier sends an estimated annual consumption to the new supplier on switch. This is based on their records, not a Data Collector so could even impact the estimation process. It is supposed to be the Data Collector but I've seen incorrect values, plus it can be a timing issue since the supplier sends this prior to the Data collector isduing the final AA with adjusted final EAC to them. There's also the possibility of sending erroneous data if the supplier sweeps for the last update but it was an error sent to them.

So with all this data flying around, as you can imagine, rejections are rife as automation will be extremely limited. Building systems to use all this is very tricky and requires people who know it...and that is very often not consultants!

If you can understand all that, you are more aware than 99.9% of supplier staff!

Terrylw1

jalexa wrote: »

Another question. Does that procedure refer to gas as well as electricity?

The gas industry is somewhat behind the elec one. The method of communication is different and the terminology is different.

So, meter readings do make it into the settlement process. However, instead of an EAC, they have an Annual Quantity (AQ). The AQ is based on the previous 12 months but its also subject to a yearly AQ review process where the supplier can agree the AQ as correct or it ends up being defaulted (to my knowledge). This is where gas lags behind because its averages/defaults do not take into account modern society. Unlike elec, gas works on location, height above sea level, etc hence doesn't consider the large hours next to small house concept. Average weather conditions are factored in so I'm assuming the severity can be factored in but I'm not sure.

There is also a High AQ process for any above industry tolerence ones like in elec.

I'm more of an elec guy but I'll look up some AQ info if possibke.