EDF Fail Ofgem Direct Debit Rules

jalexa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Where does it quote EAC & AQ in the OVO doc?

The reference is in the OVO Help centre.

http://www.ovoenergy.com/help-centre/

"Shortly after transferring to Ovo, we receive your Estimated Annual Consumption (EAC) for your electricity and Annual Quantity (AQ) for your gas. This information is based on all the readings that are on record for you over the past two years and is an accurate indication of your annual usage. We then use this information, alongside seasonal consumption profiles, to calculate your usage."

Terrylw1

jalexa wrote: »

The reference is in the OVO Help centre.

http://www.ovoenergy.com/help-centre/

"Shortly after transferring to Ovo, we receive your Estimated Annual Consumption (EAC) for your electricity and Annual Quantity (AQ) for your gas. This information is based on all the readings that are on record for you over the past two years and is an accurate indication of your annual usage. We then use this information, alongside seasonal consumption profiles, to calculate your usage."

Now that's very interesting given it means SLC25 is pretty pointless since they are prepared to alter your DD right after you join. So, the customer cannot rely of this protection with OVO who disregard the terms of their offered contract.

Do they send out something explaining why this changes or just state "we've reviewed it and its too low" hence leaving the customer confused about the point of sale.

A few issues also spring to mind:

- the EAC/AQ can be spread over multiple change of occupier periods hence may not be reflective of the present customers usage and the offered version could be more accurate.

- if the switch reading is estimated and the previous consumption has had no firm data, its not reliable anyway. Its likely the offered quote would be closer in this scenario as long as the bills are tracking to the EAC/AQ.

- what if the supplier isn't submitting customer reads to the DC/MRA for validation? In this scenario the bill will match the meter but the EAC/AQ won't.

- what if the supplier submits the customer reads to the DC/MRA but they fail it hence not interacting with the EAC/AQ? If the supplier doesn't ensure they get it validated, the bill will match the meter but the EAC/AQ won't.

The last 2 have been known industry issues on a mass scale for quite some years. In fact, some suppliers are still working on this from recent programmes started in the last few years.

OVO are a new player so perhaps they are less aware of the enormous differences between what a supplier pays to what they bill to the customer when you drill down to meter point level.

Whilst I think using this data is good, it needs very detailed refinement which I doubt is the case. It also requires some SLC reinforcement about the practice of customer interaction since the alteration is unexpected and contradictory. Certainly without applying a "short" EAC/AQ calculation with weather considerations, it can't be accurate in this instance. Since such a calculation is not required in settlement, suppliers won't apply it.

jalexa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Now that's very interesting given it means SLC25 is pretty pointless since they are prepared to alter your DD right after you join.

Yes, but they are not alone. That is also the Edf practice. I would go further than your "SLC25 is pretty pointless". Immediately prior to a switch there is an explicit quotation for the monthly payment. The consumption assumptions are customer self-certification of annual consumption or monthly payment, or acceptance of a usage profile. It is intrinsic in a Consumer Focus accredited comparison that the comparison period is 12 months. Customer self-certification is a compliant feature of the Consumer Focus accredited comparison.

I believe the supplier practice we are now seeing (prompt amendment of a quoted DD payment citing Ofgem regulation), is little more than Consumer Focus endorsed mis-selling.

To return to Edf as it is the thread topic, the principal failure has been the failure to explain (SLC27.14). The Edf re-calculated payments were in excess of 10% above the tariff cost of what I know now would have been the likely industry provided data, so also a SLC27.15 failure. I suspect, though I do not know for sure, that the EAC and AQ would be normalised for weather. Given the abnormal severity of the previous winters I expect EAC and AQ would be less than the actual previous consumption. I experienced disingenuous evasion to asked questions about previous/projected consumption. I really hope that there is not more than meets the eye going on there.

It is interesting to note the revelation by the Scottish Power rep in another thread that Scottish Power calculations are done on a rolling 12 month basis. Well done Scottish Power:T.

Later edit: there is some doubt whether the Scottish Power rep information is accurate because it is not in accordance with published information.

Terrylw1

Well, EAC's are definitely weather normalised as its the definition in the catalogue.

victor2

Decided to see if EDF's DD recalculation has improved by entering my readings yesterday. Got a bill today - with an increase of the DD from £100 to £111, so no change there! I am tracking my usage at costing about £96 per month and paying them £100. As expected at this time of year, my account is in credit.
So, it's on to the phone to them, where I'm sure a very polite CS rep will put it back to where it was, for the 6th time I believe. My current fixed price contract ends in September....

brewerdave

victor2 wrote: »

Decided to see if EDF's DD recalculation has improved by entering my readings yesterday. Got a bill today - with an increase of the DD from £100 to £111, so no change there! I am tracking my usage at costing about £96 per month and paying them £100. As expected at this time of year, my account is in credit.
So, it's on to the phone to them, where I'm sure a very polite CS rep will put it back to where it was, for the 6th time I believe. My current fixed price contract ends in September....

............far,far too trusting.....despite the last bill leaving my DD alone,I'm sticking with the "no readings til I'm asked" approach

victor2

brewerdave wrote: »

............far,far too trusting.....despite the last bill leaving my DD alone,I'm sticking with the "no readings til I'm asked" approach

Indeed.
Been on the phone to them. They apologised and put it back to £100. "It does always seem to do that when it gets a reading" was the only explanation I could get. Their own bill predicts my coming 12 months usage to be £1192 at current prices. So that's just under £100 per month - as I pointed out to them. More apologies and a suggestion that when I phone in my readings I should tell them I don't want my DD adjusted. I pointed out that when I do provide readings I give them online, but it's OK as I won't give any more until the end of my contract.
Shambles.

jalexa

victor2 wrote: »

Their own bill predicts my coming 12 months usage to be £1192 at current prices.

Interesting, I've yet to receive a bill with that information. I'm continuing to submit "30 day readings" to investigate the issue. That's now two bills with no recalculation. Maybe I have a "no-recalculation" flag:D?

Does the bill "£1192" agree with the 'Midata' projections? I thought there was an unexplained 6% excess there.

victor2

jalexa wrote: »

Interesting, I've yet to receive a bill with that information. I'm continuing to submit "30 day readings" to investigate the issue. That's now two bills with no recalculation. Maybe I have a "no-recalculation" flag:D?

Does the bill "£1192" agree with the 'Midata' projections? I thought there was an unexplained 6% excess there.

No it doesn't.
Midata predicts £1216 and there's no obvious way I can say that doesn't include the 6% discount.
The bill predicts my coming 12 months kWh usage to be the last 12 months plus 0.4% for electricity and plus 5% for gas. This gives the £1192 cost.
Midata doesn't inflate the kWh, but the resulting cost still doesn't quite come out to what I would calculate it to be, I make it £1163 with discounts applied.
Might investigate further to try to unravel what they have done!

jalexa

victor2 wrote: »

No it doesn't.
Midata predicts £1216 and there's no obvious way I can say that doesn't include the 6% discount.

Being picky:D, when you said earlier "On my account, Midata is fairly accurate (after they had readings covering a year, thanks to a meter reader) and the predicted costs excluded the 6% DD discount" did I misunderstand whether or not the 6% was included or excluded?

I can't make sense of my 'Midata'. The kWhrs are not much out and slowly coming down daily without readings being submitted but the 'projected cost' is about 6.7% high for the consumption.