EDF Fail Ofgem Direct Debit Rules

backfoot

jalexa wrote: »

Are you saying that it's OK for Ofgem to say we were right in November and it is all my fault for not checking a prospective supplier's policy?:( Perhaps I need to double check my records to see if my first knowledge of the "short year" was before or after November 2011.

I just noticed the entry on the leaflet and was helpfully pointing it out . I expect Ofgem would use it if you made a complaint about them.

Are you saying you relied on the Ofgem factsheet in making your purchasing decision to use EDF?

The Factsheet data contains a summary of Supplier DD policies at a point in time. I don't think that part of it is Regulated.

I think if EDF told Ofgem that they aim for a anniversary review zero balance but then do something different, then the complaint is against EDF. If they haven't made it clear in a contract (or anywhere else) to the customer, then you have a valid complaint imho.

I can't remember exactly what your complaint is.? Short year alignment/ lack of supporting information or both?

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

I can't remember exactly what your complaint is.? Short year alignment/ lack of supporting information or both?

My concern is unsubstantiated inaccurate calculation (contrary to SLC27.14&15). Anyway it is "on hold" until I receive (or fail to receive) a 12 month statement. The "short year" is one explanation for inaccurate calculation and an explanation (or excuse) for your current issue.

I drive these things on "process". I have asked a question of Ofgem (about an Ofgem document) via email and I expect an answer. The target is 10 days. Nearly up. I have "set a trap" by asking for a telephone call-back on the issue. In due course I will consider the response (or lack of reponse) and consider the next step.

It would be easier for Ofgem to respond. Especially as today they are not flavour of the month in the press.

BTW it was helpful of you to point out something I didn't notice.:) But "weasel wording" can easily be exploited. Thanks, I will be ready.

snowcat53

jalexa wrote: »

Have you had a "12 month statement" as required by regulations. I so what did it say about your projected annual consumption?

I have deferred any "nuclear" options until I have (or fail to be sent) a "12 month statement".

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Yes I have - in February, but I regard this as irrelevant to my complaint which is that they NEVER give an explanation or calculation when notifying you about a DD change. Irrelevant except inasmuch as it was another example of this failure. It gives a chart showing average daily gas and elec usage (for 'this period last year', 'at your last bill' and 'this bill', but with no average for 12 (or 14m)) and does not attempt to explain how this gives the DD amounts

They did give a calculation in the latest response re my complaint but bizarrely this is based on the cost for the last 14 months divided by 14, not on the new tariff prices!

snowcat53

backfoot wrote: »

I have also reached deadlock with EDF and I am deciding the next action. I have asked Ofgem to intervene on my case (and on behalf of others), as EDF are now saying that they do not have to explain DD changes. They argue that SLC31A exempts them from SLC27, for consumption history of less than 12 months.

This is a ridiculous argument as they have performed a calculation,which they aren't prepared to share for some unknown reason.

The respective SLC's have totally different purposes and objectives and I consider there is an abuse of process to dismiss complaints on this basis.

I am waiting for Ofgem's response.

I would be interested to hear exactly what EDF have said to you?

Well they cant use this excuse on me as they have well over 12m usage. Agree it is ridiculous

Can one go to Ofgem with this? I tried them and CF before but they batted it straight back.

jalexa

snowcat53 wrote: »

It gives a chart showing average daily gas and elec usage (for 'this period last year', 'at your last bill' and 'this bill', but with no average for 12 (or 14m))

I'm a little in the dark about this as I haven't yet had a 12 month statement (only numerous interim Direct Debit Reviews). It is a requirement of the "annual statement" (SLC31A thanks to backfoot) that the annual projection is monetised. Do you agree that the monetary amount stated is accuarate for any kWhrs stated and is a reasonable projection, for example based on the outturn for the previous 12 months?

backfoot

snowcat53 wrote: »

Well they cant use this excuse on me as they have well over 12m usage. Agree it is ridiculous

Can one go to Ofgem with this? I tried them and CF before but they batted it straight back.

You can always try but it is unusual for them to respond. I have been sucessful on the basis that I have submitted issues concerned with matters of policy and regulation.

They also appreciate that I have referred matters of significance affecting millions of customer's where Supplier's have not abided by their obligations. e.g.abuse of exit fees and Eon's DD policy (now changing).

Have EDF actually given you a reason for not supplying the calculated amounts? e.g.the reason given to me.

Now that they have with the inventive 14 month/12 calculation, you could ask for a deadlock position explaining that their DD Management policy isn't compliant with SLC27 and their associated customer service is totally inadequate.

You should be seeking compensation for your wasted time and inconvenience. Ofgem look at such findings in determining future actions or enforcement.

It would tie up nicely with my own complaint as they are not disimilar. EDF are already being investigated for Complaint Handling failures, of which you have obvious evidence.

snowcat53

backfoot wrote: »

Have EDF actually given you a reason for not supplying the calculated amounts? e.g.the reason given to me.

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No, they seem to believe I should be happy that they have provided a calculation later when asked (much later). There have been at least 3 of these from different people all coming up with different figures. They never answer the question as to why a calcn is not issued with the dd change notice

snowcat53

My mistake - I have just found another page on my February annual review (exactly 12m) which DOES give last 12m consumption in kWh and uses the new tariff prices. Dividing this figure by 12 with the then credit balance does seem to give their (then) figure.

[Proviso - I can't completely verify the consumption figures as the start date for the 12m period does nto tally with a statement date or meter readings. ]

So they can do it if they want to....

I still believe they should do this every time they try to change the DD though.

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

Are you saying you relied on the Ofgem factsheet in making your purchasing decision to use EDF?

No, and anyway that was prior to the November 2011 revision (or issue).

What I relied on was a Consumer Focus accredited comparison website. It is a requirement (I think) that the comparison is done on a 12 month basis. I compared on a "target consumption", somewhat less than the previous 12 months severe winter consumption, and incidently the "review" outcome consumption was less than my "target" consumption. The initial DD was accurately set for 1/12 of the annual consumption cost per the comparison.

Does anybody know whether the supplier or the comparison website calculates that?

A some point, without the courtesy of being informed, Edf substituted a different and larger annual projection and recalculated a higher monthly payment. In doing that I believe they are challenging a central feature of the Confidence Code.

As it happened the original payment amount, which I insisted was restored at each recalculation, proved adequate at review. A surplus even. In spite of regular customer reads there was never any evidence of the Edf calculation converging to correct. I believe that is because it doesn't for reasons we are not being informed about, but among other things related to the scripted or trained-in excuse "we do not have 12 months of readings". Which is where you are but from a different direction.

Terrylw1

snowcat53 wrote: »

Yes I have - in February, but I regard this as irrelevant to my complaint which is that they NEVER give an explanation or calculation when notifying you about a DD change. Irrelevant except inasmuch as it was another example of this failure. It gives a chart showing average daily gas and elec usage (for 'this period last year', 'at your last bill' and 'this bill', but with no average for 12 (or 14m)) and does not attempt to explain how this gives the DD amounts

They did give a calculation in the latest response re my complaint but bizarrely this is based on the cost for the last 14 months divided by 14, not on the new tariff prices!

Settlement charges become crystallised at 14 months. 14 months are basically where the supplier pays.

That's the only thing I can see a supplier needing to calculate at this point, but that would be relevant if they are using industry data such as EAC/AA or AQ. It does make me wonder what they have built...I have heard some issues about another supplier using that data and I've seen completely incorrect calculations in legacy systems due to it.