Question/Info about leaving site

Nozone

Just a bit of background first;

Not the RK, but got slapped with a parking ticket from a PPC for leaving a free car parking site (which I did), although having been into some of the shops on the retail park, and admitedly being somewhat ignorant of the parking rules (the last time I used the site, several years ago there were no regulations pertaining to leaving the site, parked there hundreds of times and left the site with no 'fine') having not read the current regulation signs, I feel the ticket is unjust.

Anyhow, luckily I had a friend who told me to just ignore it unless it was police/council. For a bit of reasurrance I checked the net and found these forums with the multitude of 'ignore' and have been following that through since November.

Currently up to £150 'fine' including 'administration' costs, which was payable upon threat of 'legal action' by 03 Feb 2012 if I remember correctly (don't have the letters with me at the moment sorry). Not received anything further but I have the feeling that they'll continue.

Anyway sorry for the essay up there, just thought it might help to flesh things out a little before my questions;

1) Am I right in thinking to actually prove that the driver had left the site they would have to have EXTREMELY good CCTV coverage? I.e they would need video evidence of me driving the vehicle, exiting the site, returning to the vehicle and driving the vehicle out?

2) I havn't had chance to check this for definate, but the carpark is bisected by a public road, I'm not sure if the smaller section (with one retailer on it) is definately covered by the PPC, but the retail park sign lists the sole retailer along with the other retailers. The main parking regulations sign is RIGHT on the road enterance, to read it you would either need to stop on the road in your vehicle, or step foot on the public pavement to have a look at it. Surely if someone were to argue that they left the site to read the regulations that is reasonable (if a little bit of a stretch of the truth).

EDIT: I meant to ask also, surely someone could also argue that they had to leave one side of the retail park (across a public road) to visit the store/stores on the other side?

I'm definately continuing down the ignore route, and hopefully things will fizzle out, I guess I'm looking for a bit of reassurance also!

I still can't believe the charges these idiots try to slap on people, as an unemployed graduate living off savings, the initial £40 fine is (without exaggeration) 3 weeks food shopping to me! I initially thought about telling them this but I reckon some cowboy would have just sat there in his office and had a good laugh at it.

Hope everyone is well, thanks in advance for your help!

robredz

Why worry, ignore the muppets, spred the word, consequential loss is zero, you visited shops on the site. It is easier to ignore them they have a snowflake in hells chance of grounding a claim in court for their unlawful civil penalty

Enterprise_1701C

A year or so ago I went against all my principles. Any other ticket just gets ignored. My daugher had got herself a ticket in a notorious shopping site locally, she had not been driving long and got rather upset about it. As the car was in her name, and I did not want her getting wound up etc, we sent in a copy of a receipt from when she shopped there. She did leave the site, but she actually bought something from one of the shops there before going back to the car. Don't know if it is too late for you to do that, but might be worth producing one if they proceed with the 1 in a million chance of trying to go further!!

Trebor16

Here is the key..............................the car park was free!!! No loss to the PPC/landowner and no legitimate powers for them to issue "fines". Just ignore them from now on.

Oopsadaisy

Here's a bit of background.......there are circa 20,000 posts on here saying to ignore all PPC cr4p.

They are right, there's nothing else of any significance or import whatsoever.

FatAndy

Nozone wrote: »

1) Am I right in thinking to actually prove that the driver had left the site they would have to have EXTREMELY good CCTV coverage? I.e they would need video evidence of me driving the vehicle, exiting the site, returning to the vehicle and driving the vehicle out?

I was wondering this myself. A retail park might have hundreds or thousands of shoppers so how do they track every single of them as they go in and out of shops?

I very occasionally go to a certain retail park with the wife and kids and while they go around the shops I sometimes wander off site and go elsewhere. Would we get a pro-rata invoice to take into account the fact that I left the site but the wife and kids didn't?

Fortunately I know to ignore the invoices, pro-rata or not, but I do wonder how they know if someone has left the site. I'm guessing they just pick a few names out of the hat at random and try it on, otherwise they must have some very scary technology.

give_them_FA

Don't start arguing the facts. The PPC won't be interested. The fact that they are trying to wheedle £150 out of you for doing nothing wrong surely confirms to you, as a University Graduate, what their game is. Forget CCTV- they will assume the driver was the RK, especially if he/she continues to ignore them.

Bottom line- they are only in it for the money. MOST people are wise to the scam and don't pay. As soon as they get to a certain number of letters, they will realise YOU are one of the wise ones, and won't spend any more money on a futile attempt to collect.

The other certainty is that they will NOT take it to court. Forget that- empty threat. So long as they keep getting zero response they can't even name a defendant, because they have no actual evidence on the identity of the driver.

BTW not clear from reading your post but are the letters coming to you or RK? I took it to be RK since only way they could come to you is if you'd made contact.

pogofish

CCTV means exactly b.all in this case. Just ignore thescammers.

Nozone

Apologies, I should have specified; the letters are being delivered to the RK (whom I live with, my father).

In response to the receipt question; I didn't actually buy anything on-site, otherwise my first response (before searching the internet and finding this goldmine of a forum!) would have been to send them a copy of this.

I think the only reason I was clocked as leaving the site was because I exited the vehicle not far from two men dressed in some sort of blue jumper/trousers (uniform?). At the time I thought they were probably parking attendants, but testament to my ignorance of the 'regulations' at this car park I thought nothing of it. I very much doubt there was any photographic evidence of me taken by these two clowns, and if there was it will be of me walking away about 100m away, with a wooly hat on and my coat collar turned up (it was freezing that day!), so yeah I'm thinking/hoping good luck with that one!

Thanks for all the reassuring posts!

Part of my original post was to put those few of my ideas out there as I find it reassuring to think about these 'loop holes' in their regulations. I'm sure many people on here can sympathise (and likewise I really do sympathise with Jane Blackford's daughter) that these letters are quite frightening, particularly the extortionate 'fines'. I was hoping that my points would maybe help provide some reassurance for others in the same boat as myself.

Also as a thought, a lot of people have mentioned the 'fines' being based on the consequential loss/damage on behalf of the retailers. Surely this can never be proven? My thinking is that there's no way in hell that is a valid argument, let alone an argument that be attatched to a monetary value. Not to mention the fact that by entering the 'contract' with the PPC you generally have to have entered the 'contract' prior to being able to read the terms of the 'contract' (i.e driving on to the site).

Just thought I'd add those things in to see what people think, and again hopefully it might provide some reassurance for others.

hammer68

hi Nozone

same thing happened to me In Bristol, parked in a free retail park used the pedestrian crossing to the side of it to go to the other part of the retail park which is the same as yours as it has a public road splitting it. came back to find a ticket on the screen , wrote to them (mistake i know) to tell them i was not paying it.Now up to my 2nd letter from debt recovery plus stating litigation, solicitors etc had to be paid by the 31st jan. nothing else since then so obviously cant be desperate to take me to court for their trumped up charge.

hammer68

oh and by the way they wanted proof from a receipt that i visited a outlet, seems you cant browse in shops any more