Royal Mail Pilot Scheme. Breach of Contract?

misssarahleigh

I've come across some information regarding Royal Mail running a new pilot scheme in which signed for letters can be left with a neighbour if you are out.

Now, I have packages left with neighbours and don't mind, but i'm aware not all neighbours will hand them back to you.

My question is, if royal mail do this, would it be considered a breach of contract? The point of signed for delivery is so it gets to the correct person and you can prove it.

If said person can now turn round and say "must have gone to a neighbours and they didn't give it me" does that not make the point of the service usless?

Any thoughts welcome :-)

cardinalbiggles

They are currently trying to get a change in the law to allow them to do this. Every other delivery company is allowed to but Royal Mail are legally not able to leave items with other people. There are some local agreements in place but not nationwide.

A guy from Royal Mail was on the radio about it last week

AsknAnswer2

This would be of no use to me. My neighbours wouldn't think twice about keeping something that doesn't belong to them, and they have done so before (though the item wasn't signed for and it wasn't an RM delivery). I'd rather make the trip to the sorting office to sign for the delivery than trust my neighbours.

adouglasmhor

Are the courts not going to kick up as Citations etc. Can now be denied by the addressee?

misssarahleigh

cardinalbiggles wrote: »

They are currently trying to get a change in the law to allow them to do this. Every other delivery company is allowed to but Royal Mail are legally not able to leave items with other people. There are some local agreements in place but not nationwide.

A guy from Royal Mail was on the radio about it last week

Ah didn't know that!

My opinion is they are doing it to reduce work (like those "We called but you were out cards" which magically work as they are written before a knock at the door)

The reason I send recorded delivery most of the time is so the recepient (normally a company) cannot wriggle out of getting my letter (as I have proof). If you give them a loophole by simply saying the neighbour hasn't passed it on, the service is useless, as I cannot guarentee or prove my letter has got to it's intended target.

custardy

cardinalbiggles wrote: »

They are currently trying to get a change in the law to allow them to do this. Every other delivery company is allowed to but Royal Mail are legally not able to leave items with other people. There are some local agreements in place but not nationwide.

A guy from Royal Mail was on the radio about it last week

you mean the Postal services act

Consumer Focus’s response to Postcomm decision on Changes to Royal Mail Licence Conditions covering compensation claim times and a trial of a proposal to leave post with a neighbour

Responding to Postcomm’s decision to agree with Royal Mail’s application to limit compensation claim times to 80 days, Robert Hammond, Director of Postal Policy and Regulation at Consumer Focus said:

‘The changes to compensation claim times are much more consumer-friendly than Royal Mail originally proposed. This is a positive compromise for postal customers. However, this is a significant change from the current regime. Royal Mail must make customers fully aware of this change and highlight the benefits of claiming compensation early to avoid losing out.’

Commenting on the announcement that Postcomm has given Royal Mail the go ahead to trial their proposal to leave post with a neighbour if they are not home, Robert Hammond, Director of Postal Policy and Regulation said:

‘We’re glad Royal Mail has given people the choice to opt out of having a neighbour receive their post, or accepting neighbours’ post themselves. Four in five consumers told us they thought they should be able to decide whether to take part in the scheme, so this is a sensible step.

‘People will also be reassured that responsibility for the condition of post they accept on behalf of a neighbour will remain with Royal Mail.’

Consumer Focus has called for the trial to be independently monitored for customer satisfaction as well as cost-savings. Results of the trial will be shared with Consumer Focus and Ofcom and once they are complete.

ENDS

The Postal Services Act 2011 includes the transfer of regulatory responsibility from Postcomm to Ofcom.

Previously Consumer Focus accepted the argument that a cut in compensation claim times from the existing 12 month period, which is substantially longer than any other postal company offers, was sensible. We agreed that Royal Mail should be allowed to reduce the compensation period to reflect the length of time that most consumers take to make a claim.

Royal Mail does not accept claims for lost items within the first 15 working days after posting – this will be the first 15 working days of the 80 calendar day limit.

In research carried out by GfK NOP on behalf of Consumer Focus 80 percent of people said they thought they should be able to opt in or opt out of having a neighbour receive their post. 2054 adults aged 16 plus in the UK were contacted face-to-face between 18 and 23 August 2011.

Currently, undelivered post is taken back to the delivery office and a P739 card is put through the recipient’s door, detailing their three options: redelivery on another day; collection from the Delivery Office; collection from a Post Office (for a £1.50 fee). If the item is not collected/redelivered after a certain number of days the item is returned to the sender as undelivered.
Royal Mail proposals for the trial:

The postman will attempt to deliver ‘undeliverable’ items as normal

If the addressee is not at home, the postman will go to the property of a neighbour, defined as someone who ‘lives within close proximity’. The postman chooses the neighbour

For non-signature items, if the neighbour is at home and accepts the item the postman will deliver a notification card to the addressee. This will detail the address of the neighbour

For items requiring a signature (except special delivery), the signature of the neighbour will be taken.

If the neighbour is not at home or does not accept the item, the postman will return the item to the Delivery Office as usual

its been okay'd with the regulator. so Im not sure what you mean
are you now saying a trial that has been ongoing for months is illegal?

custardy

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Are the courts not going to kick up as Citations etc. Can now be denied by the addressee?

citations go to an address,not a person
if there is no answer at the address,then they are returned to the courts (who then send the same letter by 1st class)
I don't see delivery staff going knocking doors with a citation

custardy

AsknAnswer2 wrote: »

This would be of no use to me. My neighbours wouldn't think twice about keeping something that doesn't belong to them, and they have done so before (though the item wasn't signed for and it wasn't an RM delivery). I'd rather make the trip to the sorting office to sign for the delivery than trust my neighbours.

which is why there is an opt out.
I posted about this months ago

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3392320

custardy

misssarahleigh wrote: »

Ah didn't know that!

My opinion is they are doing it to reduce work (like those "We called but you were out cards" which magically work as they are written before a knock at the door)

The reason I send recorded delivery most of the time is so the recepient (normally a company) cannot wriggle out of getting my letter (as I have proof). If you give them a loophole by simply saying the neighbour hasn't passed it on, the service is useless, as I cannot guarentee or prove my letter has got to it's intended target.

you realise leave with neighbour increases the work for delivery staff?
however it means less packets back to the office(in theory)
with later starts and increased packet traffic & longer opening hours. the callers offices are under massive strain and are historically understaffed anyway

misssarahleigh

custardy wrote: »

you realise leave with neighbour increases the work for delivery staff?
however it means less packets back to the office(in theory)
with later starts and increased packet traffic & longer opening hours. the callers offices are under massive strain and are historically understaffed anyway

I don't disagree your understaffed. It's not the posties at the door but the management that's the problem.

Didn't realize you posted before, apologies

Although i still stick by the fact I do think the point of having the service will be lost if your allowed to leave it with a neighbour. I don't want proof somebody in the same area got it. I want proof that the person I sent it to got it.

I would also be interested to see what the claims process will be. An example, I post out concert tickets to somebody I sold them to on ebay. The neighbor signs for them and very naughty doesn't give them back to the person I address the envelope to.

I assume royal mails stance will be "we're allowed to deliver to neighbors, and we delivered, our job is done". Ebay buyer will say, "never got them, the law states you are responsible for getting them to me, you didn't". I'll be unable to make a claim with RM and will lose out on money. My only resource will be taking the person who signed for the item to court to recover the costs. That person says they handed the letter to their neighbor, it's them who's telling porkies".

Seller is stuffed

custardy

misssarahleigh wrote: »

I don't disagree your understaffed. It's not the posties at the door but the management that's the problem.

Didn't realize you posted before, apologies

Although i still stick by the fact I do think the point of having the service will be lost if your allowed to leave it with a neighbour. I don't want proof somebody in the same area got it. I want proof that the person I sent it to got it.

I would also be interested to see what the claims process will be. An example, I post out concert tickets to somebody I sold them to on ebay. The neighbor signs for them and very naughty doesn't give them back to the person I address the envelope to.

I assume royal mails stance will be "we're allowed to deliver to neighbors, and we delivered, our job is done". Ebay buyer will say, "never got them, the law states you are responsible for getting them to me, you didn't". I'll be unable to make a claim with RM and will lose out on money. My only resource will be taking the person who signed for the item to court to recover the costs. That person says they handed the letter to their neighbor, it's them who's telling porkies".

Seller is stuffed

when left with neighbour on a signed item(note SD is exempt from leave with neighbour)
the item should be signed *custardy* (might have been exclamation,I cant recall what the final choice was)
with the stars denoting a neighbour
this is inputed on the text field by the delivery postie
however,If I had a pound for every time someone complained items were not left with neighbours
I have warned for a long time folks wouldnt like whats coming.
this is the thin end of the wedge
most delivery staff dont want leave with neighbour
eg I knock on the door,no answer,leave a card
I knock on the door,no answer,I then have to try1,2,3? neighbours (my old office is a trial office. it had computer designed duties that coulnt be wrong. now somehow the time for leave with neighbour is just got to be found)
whether I get rid of the packet,I still have to go back and leave a card.
so no saving apart from not having a packet to carry,unless nobody answers