Rent arrears and threat of eviction

AMMM

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I think you should be concerned about your partner moving you in under these circumstances.

I'm far from impressed about it believe me. But the communication re the council starting court proceedings only arrived yesterday. He was led to believe (falsely it would seem) by an advisor in the call centre that if he paid the extra on top of his rent it would not get to this stage as long as he kept the extra payments up. I have since looked at all documentation he has received from them re the amounts etc and the figure he has told me he is in arrears by is genuine.

I have worked out a budget and by tightening or belts we can get it all paid off by the end of March. This being the case, can they still proceed with trying to evict him if the arrears are completely paid off? (given that it will be paid off outwith the 7 day time period they have given him to pay)

DVardysShadow

AMMM wrote: »

I'm far from impressed about it believe me. .... I have worked out a budget and by tightening or belts we can get it all paid off by the end of March. This being the case, can they still proceed with trying to evict him if the arrears are completely paid off? (given that it will be paid off outwith the 7 day time period they have given him to pay)

Well, let's hope that the man turns out to be as good as the woman he has found.

The 7 day period is something of a fiction, in that if you paid everything off in 14 or even 21 days, they probably would not take it to court. And reading your first post, it looks like they have only told him over the phone - in that case the suggested court date is very likely to be a fiction.

I have no idea what the court procedure rules in Scotland are called, let alone know whether they are similar to the English rules. But I would expect that if they do take it to court, the rules require that they write a letter which advises

• that they intend to take it to court
• what remedy [eviction, payment order] they are seeking
• what they want a remedy for [exact amount of arrears
• what must be done to rectify the situation

So if you have not had that letter, I would expect that nothing will really happen for a little while. It sounds like a scare tactic - but not one to ignore [not that you would, I think].

Your best bet is to keep the amount of arrears as a moving [downwards!] target. Sending a letter referring to the fact of the phone conversation but not the detail, suggesting a repayment plan would be a very good move. Keep a copy and stick to the plan. Even if you get a letter which rejects the plan, you should still meet your promises on the letter. If the arrears go below a certain level, an eviction order would probably not be granted and your letter would be a useful defence if there was any leeway fro the judge.

AMMM

After doing some more digging it would seem that the LA must firstly instruct the tenant of their intention to pursue court proceedings, and this must take the form of a 28 day notice period. After the 28 day notice period, if the arrears are still not cleared, the LA can then proceed with seeking a court hearing.


Below is the letter that was e mailed to my partner from them. (names blanked out). Can anyone advise if this is intended to be taken as a formal notice of a court hearing or more of a scare tactic at this stage. If the 28 day notice procedure is indeed the correct legal one, then the arrears will be cleared before a court date is issued.


We are contacting the LA today with our proposals for repayment, fingers crossed they accept.





Dear ********



URGENT – COURT ACTION TO RECOVER YOUR TENANCY
RENT ARREARS ***** (balance as at 07/02/12)



Due to the above balance currently outstanding on your rent account, ***** Council is about to instruct court proceedings to recover your tenancy and rent due. To prevent this course of action, full payment of the outstanding balance must be made in the next 7 days.



Having been sequestrated in August last year, with a balance being written off at the time, ***** Council will not enter into any further arrears repayment agreement with you.



If you are experiencing financial difficulties, please get in touch with either Trading Standards Money Advice Centre or Citizens Advice Bureau where help on money matters is readily available.




PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER – YOUR TENANCY IS AT RISK



Yours sincerely

*****************

theartfullodger

What sort of tenancy does he have?? e.g.
http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/finding_a_place_to_live/renting_from_the_council/about_renting_from_the_council#7

What are my rights as a council tenant?

If you rent from the council, you will either be a Scottish secure tenant or, in certain circumstances, a short Scottish secure tenant. Scottish secure tenants have strong tenancy rights, as well as rights to repairs and to pass on their tenancy to other members of their family. Short Scottish secure tenants have fewer rights, and can be evicted more easily.

When you move in, you will be given a tenants' handbook outlining everything you need to know about renting from the council, including how to pay your rent, what your responsibilities are and what to do if you need repairs done to your home. Some councils also have their tenants' handbook available online. Check your council's website to find out.

Is there an existing court order against him because of previous problems?? From the letter it sounds like not, but in your shoes I'd ask,, (watch his eyes when he answers...) [sorry to be blunt..]. If there is it might be very easy for him to be evicted...

Get him to write a calm, polite, letter (yes, WRITE!! - keep copy..) saying what he will do to reduce arrears, regular extra payments etc etc etc... and then STICK TO WHAT HAS BEEN PROMISED..

Contact Shelter Scotland.. see
http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/how_we_can_help/_free_housing_advice_helpline

Shelter provides a free, national telephone advice line staffed by trained housing advisers. Lines are open from 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday.

Housing problems can affect anyone. But many people can find it hard to go for advice or just don't know what help is available. Through our helpline, we have helped thousands of people solve all kinds of housing related problems, from finding them a place to sleep to suggesting how to handle mortgage arrears.

If you have a housing problem, you can call free on 0808 800 4444 (now free to call from all six of the main UK mobile networks, Virgin, Orange, 3, T-mobile, Vodafone and O2, but charges may apply from any other network). Lines are open between 9am and 5pm, Monday to Friday.
Our advisers can:

• give immediate, practical assistance
• tell you your rights
• offer advice and guidance
• link you in with specialist or local services to help you longer term.

I have heard they are very busy & have heard of people having to wait 30 mins for an answer (they are a charity, excellent, but with limited resources...)

Just so you know this describes council eviction process

http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/eviction/eviction_from_council,_housing_association_or_co-op_accommodation_and_temporary_accommodation

I suspect council don't really want to evict him, just to shock/force him to pay his rent & arrears just like almost all other decent honourable Scots tenants do...

Best of luck...

If & when arrears are cleared maybe you could get your name on the tenancy agreement also & thus get extra rights...

DVardysShadow

AMMM wrote: »

After doing some more digging it would seem that the LA must firstly instruct the tenant of their intention to pursue court proceedings, and this must take the form of a 28 day notice period. After the 28 day notice period, if the arrears are still not cleared, the LA can then proceed with seeking a court hearing.


Below is the letter that was e mailed to my partner from them. (names blanked out). Can anyone advise if this is intended to be taken as a formal notice of a court hearing or more of a scare tactic at this stage. If the 28 day notice procedure is indeed the correct legal one, then the arrears will be cleared before a court date is issued.


We are contacting the LA today with our proposals for repayment, fingers crossed they accept.

It is poor form that this letter was emailed rather than posted and there may be some small loophole in the court procedure rules which invalidates this as notice, but in every other respect, I would take it as a valid notice - it fulfils what I would expect of a Letter Before Action - and personally, I would not hang any hope on being able to invalidate it.

Note too that although the notice says 7 days to rectify - and you might be able to argue that the notice is not valid. But if in every other respect they act as though it were a 28 day notice - ie not initiate court proceedings until 28 days, it would probably stand.

I advise that you contact the Council with a plan leading to elimination of arrears at the earliest opportunity. And never mind whether they accept or refuse, don't even press for an answer one way or another. I suggest that you write a letter and hand it in personally, making sure that someone opens and reads it and you take a note of their name.

It is going to be a bit of a white knuckle ride until the arrears are totally eliminated, because you will probably not be told if the plan is acceptable. But as I think I have mentioned, if you can get the arrears below one months rent by the date of any hearing, then eviction is probably discretionary for the judge - however the sequestration would be mentioned and would count against you.

I suggest that you write as a couple - and you mention your situation.

Rent Arrears at <Address>

We are responding to your email of <date> concerning rent arrears at <address>.

It is acknowledged that on <date of worst arrears>, there were arrears of <amount of worst arrears>. As of today we believe that the arrears have been reduced to <amount of current arrears>.

This reduction of arrears has been achieved without a formal plan being agreed. We would now formally propose to eliminate the arrears below {1 month's, 4 weeks'} rent by <date> and entirely by <date>. This will be achieved by additional payments of <amount> on <date> and every {1 month, 4 weeks} until the arrears are eliminated. We believe that this amount is realistic and the promise is sustainable. Please accept that the 7 day time-scale for the elimination of arrears could only be achieved by means of payday loans. We are not prepared to countenance this because it will only eliminate the problem in the short term at the expense of hindering timely payment of rent in the medium term.

It is noted that <partner's> previous sequestration and arrears being written off means that the council is not prepared to enter into any further arrangement. However, since <date of moving in>, AMMM has joined the household, with a 5 year old child. As I am now effectively a joint householder, I, AMMM am committed to our plan to eliminate arrears. In the event that the council still feels it necessary to take this matter to court and an eviction is secured, I would expect with my child to be rehoused immediately, not being prejudiced by any arrears prior to <date of moving in>, nor by ongoing arrears, other than any increase in arrears since <date of moving in>.

We trust that <council> will show forbearance and allow our repayment proposals to eliminate arrears. Should you wish to discuss any aspect of the plan, please do not hesitate to make contact.

Yours faithfully

<Partner> and AMMM

Bear in mind that I am not an expert in this and you need to check out with other sources too. Note too that some of this is written to be an appeal over the heads of the front line, as it will most likely be read as part of the file when the matter is reviewed for court proceedings being started. You want to make being left alone to get on with your plan to be the most productive way for the council to deal with this matter.

AMMM

Thank you very much for all your helpful advice.

It has transpired that a good friend of ours has offered to lend us some money towards the arrears, and we can scrape together the remainder and intend to pay it all off tomorrow, or Monday at the very latest. My partner has informed the council of this and they said that as long as it is cleared in full before Tuesday (the final day of the 7 day period) no court action will be sought.

rentergirl

tbs624 wrote: »

Overspending at Xmas when you have rent arrears to clear is irresponsible: one of the things that the Court would look at would be *why* the arrears accrued, ie job loss, bereavement, illness etc. Xmas overspending won't garner any sympathy.

They also consider how likely it would be that the T would keep to any future payment plan and as you say yourself he has already had one debt written off and then failed to keep up his current commitments.

As you have moved in do you make any contribution to the household outgoings that would mean your partner could pay off a larger amount of the arrears?

His best bet is probably to seek early advice from Scotland Shelter, the housing advice charity.

Do not pay of this man's arrears. You will be expected to do so every time he gets behind with rent. He should get the arrears as low as he can (and yes, skipming on food: everything) sell belongings and keep a record of the efforts he has made, hopefully to mitigate somewhat his 'overspending at xmas) which won't garner sympathy.

pinkshoes

AMMM wrote: »

he has been continuing to pay his normal amount of rent as well as 50-100 pound per month

AMMM wrote: »

He has been told to expect a court date of approx the end of March. By this time he will have gotten the arrears down to approx £368 outstanding.

If he's paying £100 extra, then that means he currently only owes less than £500 rent arrears.

Surely he has SOME possessions in the house that he can sell to clear it? A roof over his head must be more important than a TV or something?!

DVardysShadow

rentergirl wrote: »

Do not pay of this man's arrears. You will be expected to do so every time he gets behind with rent. He should get the arrears as low as he can (and yes, skipming on food: everything) sell belongings and keep a record of the efforts he has made, hopefully to mitigate somewhat his 'overspending at xmas) which won't garner sympathy.

While I fully understand where you are coming from, for better or worse [to misuse a phrase], they are a household for the moment, so they should pull together as much for OP and her son as anyone. I cannot imagine that OP does not feel that she need put nothing into the household, so for the moment, putting in towards the arrears is her contribution.

I do share great concern [can't hide my disappointment] about taking any sort of loan from friends and she has made herself much more vulnerable to on going debt abuse by accepting a loan. I strongly feel that it would have been far more satisfactory for them to pay their way out of this situation. It is unfortunate in my view that the 7 day 'deadline' has panicked OP into the loan - it does nothing for the stability of the relationship and indeed may cause the council themselves on going problems with arrears because OP's partner comes away with a reinforced brain fix that there is always a way forward which does not involve actually paying the money off.

If OP does not put anything in towards sorting this however, the whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down. If this is what you think she should do, you should be straight and advise her to walk out right now. I can't imagine that this has not crossed her mind, so I am respecting the assumed decision to stay. As I see it, there is no sensible middle way between baling right out on the one hand or staying and working together to deal with the arrears. Taking the loan, unfortunately is one of those middle ways.

AMMM, sorry to be talking over you here. I do think that the loan is a bad idea, and I think you have let yourself panicked into it unnecessarily.

I suggest that you apologise and backtrack from taking the loan and go in with the letter I suggested earlier. The section about payday loans may provide the cover you need for this action.

You should let this go to court if necessary and keep the loan idea as the very last ditch defence, borrowing the money on the day before the hearing and only offering it in court if you really need to.

AMMM

I would rather not have to take the loan either, but the council are completely unwilling to budge from the 'pay within 7 days or court proceedings will be started' stance, despite telling them that we can have the arrears paid off completely by the end of March. I suspect this is due to my partner's previous sequestration.

I probably have been panicked into taking this loan, in order to get the arrears paid, but I would rather get them paid and have the threat of court completely removed. I suffer from anxiety related illness and I don't think I could cope mentally with that hanging over me for the next few months - because even though I worked out a strategy to get the arrears paid by end of March meaning the arrears would most likely be cleared by the time of a court date, I am worried that if it gets to court, because of my partner's previous sequestration, they will still try to push for eviction on the grounds that he is an unreliable tenant.

From now on, his wages are being paid into my bank account and I am setting up a direct debit for the rent and other bills, and it certainly will not be happening again.

I do see where you are coming from though, and have taken no offence to anything anyone has said regarding the situation. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would probably be saying the same thing.