"poverty mentality"

ninnoodle

Molly41 wrote: »

I do think you can take OS too far. Like my parents for example. Their thrifty (miserly) approach to life - albeit established by their experience of World War 2 and rationing - made for a miserable childhood. Our house was cold, I had minimal toys and no fashionable clothes and a home-cut hair cut that made me a target for bullies.

I think a lot of people think this is what being OS is all about. Being stingy and miserable, and down on yourself, denial. For me it's not about that at all, and more about being clever with your money and how you spend it, about being clever with costs that eat up our money in small ways, finding ways to seek pleasure without feeling you have to spend money all the time, how once you start cooking from scratch you see 'the light' - how pleasurable it is and how much healthier it is to ready-made and for your purse.

VfM4meplse

Justamum wrote: »

I disagree. Millionaires are often the tightest people around. How often do you read about an old person who had lived like a pauper but left millions in the bank? Definitely a poverty mentality which made them rich - "take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves."

Even the Queen has a make do and mend mentality, I think it's something to do with everyone being austere during WW2 (remember the ration-coupon wedding dress?). I could be a millionaire and still wouldn't be silly with my money.

lostinrates wrote: »

How did the millions in the bank help them? Thats my point really, i won't spend money i do not have, and i spnecessity to save for future, retirement and rainy days, but...in terms of bread and butter.....i am happy to eat bread monday to friday, save on the butter, but have butter and jam on saturday and sunday...plus a little in the bank, or to eat bread and a bit of butter every day. If my svaing requirements are met, and i am not wasting money, can afford it ...why not have jam once a week?

This made me laugh as I thought back to one of my first conversations with my accountant at the age of 23; I decribed my financial goals to him and he sighed and said "you can't eat bread and jam all your life". Well I achieved my aspirations fast, and one of the best MSE things I ever did was to ditch his services and do my accounts myself.

Ben84

I think it's safe to say the idea that spending more than you need to spend on things makes you wealthier is wrong. Spending wisely saves money and gives you more, but spending minimally and spending wisely are not the same thing as they have longer term consequences. Your friend may have a point that hasn't been presented well or not well recognised. Sometimes poor people are either forced to or out of bad habit make poor value choices that collectively result in staying poor. It's a real poverty trap, I used to live in it.

Suppose my shoes were wearing out 15 years ago, I had little money so only had one pair and they were worn until they broke, so forcing me to rush out and pay full price and often because of having little money I'd buy cheap stuff at full price. This is a doubly bad choice, it costs so much more in the long term as I'm not using any offers or sales and I'm buying shoes that have a poor life span. Now I have multiple pairs of shoes, all of them bought during sales and they're better quality shoes that last so much longer. This situation can be applied to any other consumer good. I have some savings to buy things and tend to buy things at a good time to buy them now rather than wait until I have no choice and get a bad deal.

Many of the higher quality items are also repairable where cheaper ones are often not and are used and thrown out. I threw away so much more stuff when I had less money, which seems amazing really now I look back. It just didn't last and it couldn't be fixed, the clothes fall apart or fade rapidly, the flat pack furniture goes flat again and the electrical stuff just fizzles out all too soon. So much cheap stuff just turns in to landfill filler and takes your money with it.

Being able to buy big packets of things is often a huge money saver, but many people on limited budgets just never find themselves in a situation to do this when they need many items each week. At the extreme end of the scale, many companies sell washing powder in single use sachets in Africa as people just can't afford a big box all at once - even though it's cheaper per gram. Seriously, poor people are buying the same stuff as everyone else and they often end up paying more per unit for it.

A lot of people on low incomes also rent houses that cost less in rent but have poor insulation, old heating systems and a high burden on the bills.

So, the poverty trap is a very real place and making, either unknowingly or because you're unable to find money for better, poor money choices keeps many people in it. A number of people who have been there now identify money saving as making poor choices, which is obviously mistaken as true money saving is about making the best choices you can, but that's what they remember and associate with it.

scrabbles_2

Not paying for the bare essentials for your children when you can afford to is NOT OS. I think there is a HUGE difference between OS and meanness. If your parents are disinclined to spend money now it is their choice and nobody else's - perhaps the money that is 'not for spending' is for providing their children and grandchildren with a better life after they have gone?

Also, because you are OS does not mean you are necessarily squirreling the money away somewhere. Many OS'ers on this board are OS because it means they can focus on something they couldn't otherwise; being home with the kids, cutting back work, or spending more in other areas. They won't get rich financially. But they'll live a richer life, and they're certainly no less likely to come into money than anyone else!

katholicos

So conversely 'thinking rich', spending lots of money etc gives one an affluent mentality and could possibly benefit ones financial standing? Hmmm....

gallygirl

katieowl wrote: »

Interesting question. I've done a lot of reading of the 'you create your own reality' type of self help book (and I have a few fundamental problems with the concept!) and there's a lot of similar preaching in the pages, that to attract money into your life you mustn't treat it as a rare thing that is hard to come by, otherwise you create the reality that money is hard to come by..... I have attempted some of this in the past when I've been really brassic, pinning up little cards to remind myself that "Money flows to me easily" "The universe is full of abundance" etc! But maybe I never had sufficient faith to 'enable' the universe to shower me with riches, I've not bought a lottery ticket

Most of the authors of the books I've read are American it has to be said, and their idea of wealth seems to be having several expensive cars, and a big house. Doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

rinabean wrote: »

People are always chasing unattainable fantasies. The simple fact is that I'm not a poor woman with a rich woman inside trying to get out, I'm a poor woman and that's all there is to it. I don't act poor, I am poor! Maybe I'll die poor, who knows? But I have the practical and emotional capacity to deal with it (and I know this makes me damn lucky), so it would hardly be the end of the world. I see no point in pretending that I'm well off when I'm not, and the notion of attracting good things from the universe is insulting both to the intelligence and generally (it's bad enough directed at the poor, but they apply it to everyone else, too. Mental health problems? Infertility? Cancer? Well, if you didn't really want it, it wouldn't have happened! Buy my book to learn how to avoid these things in the future! Harmful nonsense.)

Another reader of The Secret here :rotfl:.

I do believe with some of the basic principles, that your mind set can really affect what happens to you, also that dwelling on negative messages can actually reinforce them. So my friend say to herself 'must avoid weak !!!!!!, must avoid weak !!!!!!, must avoid weak !!!!!!', her brain registers 'weak !!!!!!' and goes out to find another one. Only explanation I can think of :rotfl:.

Seriously, I do think that changing your attitude can change your life. Instead of me thinking 'I must save lots of money, what if, what if, what if' I've turned it into something positive - 'that's another £5 / 1 day 0.2% towards early retirement. Same result but a much healthier frame of mind, it's actually really empowering :T. Harder to do on miserable days when I've got up at 5.45 to go to work, when I could work locally for less than 1/2 the money, but I tell myself 'you are CHOOSING to do this, remember the long game' but usually works :cool:.

The reality is that if you permanently live like that, with no determined goal in mind, then you may be rich, but it would give no comfort or benefit to you.

Other issues are the 'poverty of ambition' that benefits can lead to - if you can survive on benefits without TOO much hardship why struggle to better yourself? Also what I think is called the 'danger amount' - i.e. what is the minimum amount you need to get by on? If you have that then there is nothing to strive for.

Personally I get far more pleasure from my tasty home made lunch that costs a 1/4 of the manky shop bought stuff. And yes, part of the pleasure is knowing it cost 1/4 .

Itismehonest

I think being OS is a state of mind more often than a necessity of pocket.
As has been pointed out, even the wealthiest person can be "careful" with their money.
In itself it's just being sensible & not unnecessarily wasting anything.

However, I do think some people have a "poverty mentality" in much the same way as some people suffer from inverted snobbery.
For them, frugality has gone beyond just using common sense & become more like self-flagellation which they seem to think makes them worthier than others.
They always remind me of Four Yorkshiremen

Patchwork_Quilt

"Also, because you are OS does not mean you are necessarily squirreling the money away somewhere. Many OS'ers on this board are OS because it means they can focus on something they couldn't otherwise; being home with the kids, cutting back work, or spending more in other areas. They won't get rich financially. But they'll live a richer life, and they're certainly no less likely to come into money than anyone else"

I agree completely with Scrabbles. It's not just about money. My Dad saved all his life for his retirement because he wanted to be comfortable and then didn't enjoy any of it because he was very ill. Whilst I don't think he was mean at all, I do wish they had been able to enjoy a few more nice holidays while he was still ok rather than squirrelling it away.

scottishminnie

Totally disagree - perhaps if the previous government and those holding the nation's purse strings had applied a smidgen of poverty mentality the UK would not be in the mess it's in now.

VfM4meplse

katholicos wrote: »

So conversely 'thinking rich', spending lots of money etc gives one an affluent mentality and could possibly benefit ones financial standing? Hmmm....

Well said, living beyond one's means for appearance's sake has got a lot of people into trouble and serves to feed the poverty trap.