Acer Windows Vista Licence - Rip-off?

Fosterdog

mxxx,
I don't think you are being fair to the other posters, you came on here posting that you had received bad service and wanted everyone to jump on board and agree with you.

Instead they chose to disagree and offer you some solutions and genuinely helpful advice, I suggest next time you don't want people input you avoid a public forum.

I have worked on many Acer machines over the years along with pretty much every other brand going and the only time I have every seen what you are describing phone activation has worked, this isn't a MOBO issue.

mxxx

Fosterdog wrote: »

mxxx,
I don't think you are being fair to the other posters, you came on here posting that you had received bad service and wanted everyone to jump on board and agree with you.

Instead they chose to disagree and offer you some solutions and genuinely helpful advice, I suggest next time you don't want people input you avoid a public forum.

I have worked on many Acer machines over the years along with pretty much every other brand going and the only time I have every seen what you are describing phone activation has worked, this isn't a MOBO issue.

Ok fair enough, maybe I am being a bit harsh, that's not my intention I just wanted to vent my anger/frustration at being expected to fork out more money and as this is moneysaving expert I thought it would be an ideal place.

As for the mobo not being the issue well yes and no. I hear what you are saying but I can't even get to the activation point as vista point blank refuses to accept the code. That being the case the activation line won't be able to help. Any suggestions on who/where else in Microsoft I can call? I tried looking for a number last night but just kept getting through to the activation line.

The correct method for using this licence is to use the restore cd's but these won't work as the bios on the original mobo has some sort of certificate in it to identify it as an acer board, acer even confirm this on their website so I'm stuck with that.

So... Does that mean that everyone agrees with what acer are doing here? Fair enough if you do, it puts me as the minority

System

mxxx wrote: »

So... Does that mean that everyone agrees with what acer are doing here? Fair enough if you do, it puts me as the minority

Acer are doing that (tying to an Acer mobo) because that is the contract that they have with MS. If you want to have a go, then have a go at MS. An Acer mobo and Acer recovery CD and it would all be fine. Don't use a Acer mobo?, get a new key.

candtalan

Maybe a timely hint for you to consider something like Ubuntu? Even if your intended target customers are currently uninformed (or misinformed) at least give yourself the advantage of another string to the bank account for your future. I have a whole big bunch of (novice ) friends who want to use Ubuntu, which I am only too happy to give them and also maintain with time. But, and it is an interesting 'but' for someone such as yourself - the more people, I help, then the more they are likely to want retail support when I am not available. They are not using Ubuntu because it is free of cost, but because they really decisively, want it, not Windows. Many of them have above average disposable incomes. I have talked to a few retail small PC shops in various places and 100% they believe differently - only in Windows. I already know of one small business adding Ubuntu to their daily bread, there will need to be a lot lot more. You loose nothing, your Windows business will continue anyway. Worth a thought?

[Deleted User]

banger9365 wrote: »

like to see that in the EULA say nothing about changing a faulty mother board
in case you cannot find the link http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/UseTerms/Default.aspx

Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty.

The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the End User Software License Terms and the support of the software covered by that End User Software License Terms. The End User Software License Terms is a set of usage rights granted to the end user by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as installed on that particular PC. The system builder is required to support the software on the original PC. Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PCs with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that would still define the original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original system builder did not manufacture this new PC, and therefore cannot be expected to support it.

From Microsoft OEM Partner Centre

Fosterdog

It may be worth trying to activate in safe mode, I've had that work a few times when I've had problems. The phone activation is the best option if it lets you get to that stage.

mxxx

anewhope wrote: »

From Microsoft OEM Partner Centre

Well done, looks like you've uncovered the answer right there. I am happy to step back now and accept that as the answer so that clears that up finally, its Microsoft not Acer that have imposed this restriction. Its interesting that not all OEMs use this system but at least I know the answer.

It may be of interest to some of you to know that while digging around this evening I have discovered a solution too, its not for the faint hearted and I imagine has some potential grey areas regarding legality but considering Microsoft state their reason as "The original system builder did not manufacture this new PC, and therefore cannot be expected to support it" I see no reason why I cant do the "supporting" myself.

Essentially this OEM licencing system is called SLIC and consists of a digital signature placed in the BIOS of the motherboard by the manufacturer. The OEM vendor (Acer in this case) then modified the install cd with an XML formatted 'OEM' certificate and a generic OEM pre-activation key. When the OS gets installed the OEM certificate gets validated against the SLIC signature in the BIOS and the software gets activated without having to contact Microsoft.

These OEM certificates and pre-activation keys can be found on various websites around the net (helpful if you loose your restore discs) and can even be applied to a PC after installing windows if you dont want to modify your windows install CD.
The tricky bit is the BIOS signature, however this can be done by either downloading a BIOS for you motherboard or by dumping the existing one to a file, then using a HEX editor to patch in the appropriate SLIC signature (again these can be found online). Then just reflash the BIOS with this new custom edited one, et voila, an OEM activated OS with a non OEM motherboard.

I dont recommend attempting this but I just wanted to share that I had found this was possible.

Mr_Toad

banger9365 wrote: »

like to see that in the EULA say nothing about changing a faulty mother board
in case you cannot find the link http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/UseTerms/Default.aspx

if i remember right oem codes nead oem disks ,and if its a vista sp1 code it needs sp1 disk ect ect

If the user had changed the motherboard for an Acer motherboard he wouldn't need a new licence as a replacement Acer mobo would have a valid OEM activation code in its BIOS.

He's bought a cheap generic motherboard which is definitely not covered by the existing OEM licence agreement as I said and as anewhope has pointed out with his reference to the MS Licensing FAQ.

As others have said this obviously isn't what the original poster wanted to hear but sadly it's the truth.

PC Builders get OEM licences very cheaply but the downside is that it's locked to the motherboard.

The world is awash with pirated copies of Windows and if the OP uses his OEM copy he's adding one more. This is a money saving forum, not a pirates forum where you can find out how to circumvent Microsoft's Licensing protection.

All the advice about telephone activation is, I'm sure, given in good faith. Unfortunately it's given by people who do not understand the intricacies of MS OEM Licencing.

If you really try you can get round it but just because you can doesn't make it legal.

All I would say to the OP is don't shoot the messenger.

This isn't Acer's fault, despite what it says on the case of the PC it is no longer an Acer and therefore not their problem hence the 'tough' response.

You don't own the OS, you are only licensed to use it under strict conditions which a change of motherboard to a non Acer brand has broken.

How many people actually read and understand the EULA and how many just click agree without a second glance?

spannerzone

As per so often, what people think should be right and what Microsoft licencing says are two totally different things.... it's been quite some time since MS made it a condition of OEM licences that a branded PC has to have like for like motherboard replacement to keep a legitimate operating system licence.

For those unsure, the link given earlier clearly states:

Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty.
The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the End User Software License Terms and the support of the software covered by that End User Software License Terms. The End User Software License Terms is a set of usage rights granted to the end user by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as installed on that particular PC. The system builder is required to support the software on the original PC. Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PCs with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that would still define the original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original system builder did not manufacture this new PC, and therefore cannot be expected to support it.

Also suggesting using Software4Students or phone activation might work but is a no more legitimate install than using a downloaded pirated version.

Notmyrealname

banger9365 wrote: »

if i remember right oem codes nead oem disks ,and if its a vista sp1 code it needs sp1 disk ect ect

You are wrong on both counts.