How to go about formally complaining--speed problems

FairyPrincessk

Hi, I normally post on the oldstyle board so if I've not gone through the proper process for asking this question or should be posting elsewhere please let me know.

I've had broadband and a landline with Or*nge for several months now. I've had a mobile with them for quite a bit longer. Over the past few months my broadband speeds have been appalling, ranging from fine at odd times (7 am on Sunday) to unable to even load simple emails or news websites for most hours of the day. My OH has complained on the phone twice. The first time they claimed they would phone us back but never did and the problem seemed to improve for about a month. However, the problem has returned and our recent complaint had an interesting response. When OH called he made it absolutely clear that the problem was with ongoing average speeds and that the speed early on a weekend morning wasn't bad. After going through all sorts of "processes" and finally asking to speak to a supervisor, the rep quietly explained that she can't even lodge a complaint unless we call at a time when the problem is happening and that then it was a symptom of the broadband being oversold and no permanent solution would be found. Obviously, the problem is worst when OH and I are working and cannot spend over an hour on the phone rebooting and confirming that the problem is not with firewalls or operating systems.

I work from home and OH and I rely on my laptop as our sole source of television (via iplayer) and I rely on it to keep in touch with family abroad. I feel that what we're paying for is not being provided and that our complaints are falling on deaf ears.

I would like to start the process of lodging complaints in writing. I want to document the speeds we're experiencing over a number of days/times so that if Orange doesn't resolve the problem I have some grounds for ending my contract with them. Can this be done? What kinds of wording should I use in the letters, and what would be the most effective method of documentation? I'd also like to know what sorts of options I have if they don't resolve the problem in a prompt and effective manner. Is there a consumer regulator I can contact?

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

macman

What speed are you getting, and what speed can your line support? But it just sounds like a contention issue if the speed is OK at 7am on a Sunday. Nothing you can do about that but get off the BT Wholesale connection onto a decent LLU service, if available.
Post your router stats and someone can take a look at them for you.

FairyPrincessk

I think this is the information you need from my router:
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 294964 568952 0 5706 232218 00:51:57
LAN 10M/100M 877 0 0 30 0 00:53:01
WLAN 11M/54M/150M 570197 296175 0 229917 6921 00:53:04

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 16376 kbps 920 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.8 db 0.0 db
Noise Margin 9.0 db 0.0 db


Which at the moment seems to be reflecting a very good speed--but its before 8 am.

The speeds we get vary wildly which is why it will be difficult for us to phone at the exact moment and capture some of the frustratingly low speeds we're getting. I know what the issue is, but I don't really know how to go about wording a complaint (or what kinds of information I should include) so that I can break my contract and switch to another supplier. For instance, if I wanted to record my speeds at regular intervals during the day for a couple of weeks, would I be monitoring the DL speeds reported by my router? Or, is there a better way to go about documenting how much my speed is varying?
I understand that since (as far as I can tell) my exchange is owned by BT the problem is unlikely to improve, even with another supplier. However, OH and I will be moving in a few months and I would like to be able to change suppliers then rather than signing a new contract with Orange when they've treated me so appallingly. We'll have a few months left on our Orange contract at the time, and I'm sure when I phone to tell them I'm moving they'll try to either make me buy out the contract or sign up for another year or two at my new address. I certainly don't want to sign a new contract with a company that is treating me like this.

brewerdave

HORRANGE have effectively abandoned their own network - they are just resellers of BT Wholesale services.Their Customer Services are generally appalling and it is very difficult to get any sense out of them especially with the sort of issue you are experiencing - a quick look at your stats suggests that you are on ADSL2+ and are very close to your exchange ,so its almost certain that the problem is exchange congestion.To record your actual speed there are a number of sites freely available to carry out speed tests such as speedtest.net or even BT's own speedtest at speedtester.bt.com.
If you are moving in a few months don't think its worthwhile moving suppliers unless you can get LLU at your exchange as macman says. Search for your exchange using Samknows website:-

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search


Also use the above site to find the best supplier for your new home.

As to breaking your contract with HORRANGE - They may be c**p at Customer Service but they are red hot at debt collection!!!!!!

macman

'I understand that since (as far as I can tell) my exchange is owned by BT the problem is unlikely to improve'

Not so. All exchanges are and always will be BT -owned, but that doesn't mean that you can't get a better and faster service on one of the available LLU providers, if any. So take the sound advice above from brewerdave and check on samknows and post the results.
Orange is far and away the worst provider around at present, it invariably keeps BT and TT company at the bottom of the results table in every consumer survey made.

FairyPrincessk

Thanks! Samknows indicates this:

However, there is another service on your phone line (e.g. ADSL, LLU, DACS, etc) that would prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection.
The following services are available in your location:

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
BT Wholesale WBC (21CN)
BT Wholesale SDSL
BT FTTC
AOL LLU
O2 / Be LLU
Bulldog LLU
TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU
Pipex LLU
Tiscali LLU
Tiscali TV (via Tiscali LLU)

which, I've got to be honest, doesn't really mean much to me. OH and I have been using speedtest.net to monitor our speeds for about three months now, but we haven't been keeping the results which is what I'd like to start doing now. I was basically hoping that if I documented over a number of weeks that what Orange is providing me with is a product that does not enable me to regularly do the things one could reasonably expect to do on the internet (i.e. check email, load web-pages--I know streaming will be a large demand) that I could first contact them in writing and demand the problem is rectified and when it isn't that I would then be able to formally terminate my contract prematurely as they aren't supplying what I'm paying for. I understand this will be a hassle, but is it something I can actually do? I'm from the states and although there are some similarities in US and British consumer protection this is an area I'm not sure about. I usually have OH do most of the phone negotiating as his accent garners more respect and I'm generally very quiet and the confrontation is enough to wreck my week, hence part of my motivation for shifting things into writing. That and the phone bills!

I will be reading about how to find a better replacement in the mean time. I had 02 for several years before this and never had a problem. I then switched using price comparison because I really needed to cut back expenses and I regret that now.

macman

o2 to Orange-not a good move...
That list tells you what your LLU options are, the obvious candidates there are either o2/Be or Sky.

FairyPrincessk

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind and keep arguing with Orange and hope I get somewhere. Otherwise, I'll know where to go as soon as I have the option.

agrinnall

To complain about Orange you need to first of all exhaust their internal complaint process and get a deadlock letter from them, then log a complaint with their regulator, CISAS. I haven't used them myself but I did use the complaints process for BT (via OS:C) and although it's a bit slow I did get a letter of apology and a small amount of compenstation from BT in the end.

http://www.cisas.org.uk/bHomeb-1_e.html

brewerdave

If you (or a relation) have an O2 mobile then I believe that you can still get a good deal from O2 for their LLU package BUT BE AWARE that their "standard" ADSL offering, O2 Access, is dire - so check that they have capacity available on your exchange before you jump. Also check the exchange that serves your new home. Then I suggest you find out how much it would cost you to terminate with HORRANGE - if its not too much then personally,I would bite the bullet and leave them. The process outlined by agrinnall above may well work ....but will take forever with HORRANGE...and will not stop the debt collection activities if you decide to unilaterally terminate your contract.

grimsalve

It's probably not much help to you but I'm suffering from the same problem at the moment. I was an Orange LLU customer for a couple of years and the service was reasonable but since moving to BT WBC the performance and reliability have both dropped like a stone :mad:

I've raised this with Orange many times now and they've come up with all sorts of excuses and fob offs. I finally managed to get them to book an Openreach engineer visit a while back who tried replacing some of the wiring but this didn't seem to make any difference so I think it's possibly something software-based at the exchange (maybe DLM?).

Orange don't care because they don't look after the service, as far as I know it's not possible for me as an Orange customer to approach the BT WBC fault team, and Openreach only look after the wiring - therefore it's difficult or impossible to get problems like ours resolved.

My next step is to see if it's possible to terminate the Orange contract without getting penalised and then maybe try Virgin cable broadband instead (unless they're just as bad).