LPG Gas is it worth switching to oil?

tee-bee_2

We've moved into a new home with LPG bottled gas.. incredibly pricey.

We're gonna get a wood burner stove installed (5kw) for our 3 bed semi-D.

[Deleted User]

tee-bee wrote: »

We've moved into a new home with LPG bottled gas.. incredibly pricey.

We're gonna get a wood burner stove installed (5kw) for our 3 bed semi-D.

As good as a WBS is I wouldn't say it is a replacement for a proper heating system. Great as a focal point but takes a long time to warm up with no timer facility... If you are buying in fuel then not cheap to run either. The stove was great in a recent power cut but is no match for the ASHP in terms of heat and running costs.

ilikecookies

jennye2022,

We found ourselves in a very similar situation to you a year or so ago when we bought our 5-bed out in the sticks which was on LPG at the time.

We were getting through about 700 litres every 3 weeks which back then was equating to about £100 a week. And we only had the heating on for about 6 hours a day! Our usage was particularly high as we had an old and inefficient Rayburn (20 years plus old) and poor levels of insulation. What made things even worse was that every month or so Flogas (boo hiss) put the price of LPG up, rising from 39ppl when we moved in to 57.5ppl six months later!

As such we had a dilemma about the best way forward, eg:

1) In the short term the cheapest option was just to replace the Rayburn with a modern LPG boiler (at a cost of approx £2000).
2) Switch to oil which required an oil tank and new boiler (approx £5000).
3) Switch to renewables such as a ground source heat pump or a wood/pellet boiler (which cost wise could have been anywhere between £10k-£20k).
4) Investing in cavity wall and loft insulation (approx £500) - this was a no-brainer and we did this straightaway as it would support any of the other options above.

In the end we decided we wanted to get away from LPG for a couple of reasons:

1) Lack of a competitive market for LPG - based on the unfettered price increases we saw over just 6 months we concluded that the LPG market is uncompetitive and unfair. Once you sign a contract you are at the mercy of your supplier. This is not the case for oil - we have 10+ suppliers in our region and so can haggle each time we need a fill on price.

2) Limited ability to buy in bulk with LPG - we had a 1200 litre tank which could only hold 80% of capacity as gas needs room to expand. As a result we found we drained a tank in just 3 weeks and so needed constant fill-ups. This was a pain each time to arrange and with the bad weather last year we were always worried if we would get a delivery. I think you can use up to a 2000 litre tank in the domestic setting (which again can only hold 80% of this capacity) but even so this isn't that big for a 5-bed house. With oil you can buy a tank up to 5000 litres and so fill-up at the best time of year and be confident it will last you through the winter when of course the price increases most!

3) Standing charge for LPG really peeved me off too!

4) As pointed out litre per litre oil has more bang for your buck so the slightly higher cost of a litre of oil vs a litre of LPG didn't phase me too much. I think a litre of LPG should be around 1/3 cheaper than a litre of oil to be comparable due to the different energy contents.

For the above reasons oil seemed like a much better bet and so we went down this route. We figure the work will pay for itself in about 3-4 years assuming that LPG and oil price rise at the same rate.

It did, however, feel a bit retrograde to switch from LPG to oil instead of going down the renewables route. However I discounted renewables on a couple of grounds:

1) Ground source heat pump - not convinced our property is ideal as it was build in the 1930s and whilst we have done the obvious insulation routes (eg. loft insulation, cavity wall) I don't think it is inherently well-insulated enough to make a source pump cost-effective. To work around this (eg. install massively oversized radiators) would have been cost prohibitive. I was also worried by the horror stories I've read about heat pumps as failure/success is very dependent on the installer getting their calcs right and rightly or wrongly I wasn't confident enough in the local installers to get it right. Plus I feared it would be more expensive to fix if it went wrong.

2) Wood boiler - we have a couple of stoves already so this was an attractive option but ultimately I didn't fancy loading this manually every day and we don't really have enough space for one with an automated feed.

Standalone stoves are a good way to supplement oil but remember a stove will only heat one room. With the cost of installation and the cost of good wood it's not the cheap option is may appear.

Hope that is some help!

ilikecookies

paceinternet wrote: »

Oil produces 10.4 kw per litre
LPG produces 7.08 kw per litre

Not that it really matters but I keep seeing slightly different figs for the calorific energy value of the different fuels.

For example the excellent Notts energy comparison site shows 6.66 for LPG and 9.8 for kerosene (10.4 kw is listed for whatever gas oil is!):

http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/energy_comparison_data/january_2012/

The numbers are still in the same ball park but it would be good to have the definitive numbers!

paceinternet

ilikecookies, yes there are different numbers quoted. Another useful list here which includes other fuels:

http://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.uk/index.php/domestic-fuels/fuel-prices

Using 10 for oil and 7 for lpg is reasonable for people to do comparisons on this site.

[Deleted User]

ilikecookies wrote: »

jennye2022,

We found ourselves in a very similar situation to you a year or so ago when we bought our 5-bed out in the sticks which was on LPG at the time.

We were getting through about 700 litres every 3 weeks which back then was equating to about £100 a week. And we only had the heating on for about 6 hours a day! Our usage was particularly high as we had an old and inefficient Rayburn (20 years plus old) and poor levels of insulation. What made things even worse was that every month or so Flogas (boo hiss) put the price of LPG up, rising from 39ppl when we moved in to 57.5ppl six months later!

As such we had a dilemma about the best way forward, eg:

1) In the short term the cheapest option was just to replace the Rayburn with a modern LPG boiler (at a cost of approx £2000).
2) Switch to oil which required an oil tank and new boiler (approx £5000).
3) Switch to renewables such as a ground source heat pump or a wood/pellet boiler (which cost wise could have been anywhere between £10k-£20k).
4) Investing in cavity wall and loft insulation (approx £500) - this was a no-brainer and we did this straightaway as it would support any of the other options above.

In the end we decided we wanted to get away from LPG for a couple of reasons:

1) Lack of a competitive market for LPG - based on the unfettered price increases we saw over just 6 months we concluded that the LPG market is uncompetitive and unfair. Once you sign a contract you are at the mercy of your supplier. This is not the case for oil - we have 10+ suppliers in our region and so can haggle each time we need a fill on price.

2) Limited ability to buy in bulk with LPG - we had a 1200 litre tank which could only hold 80% of capacity as gas needs room to expand. As a result we found we drained a tank in just 3 weeks and so needed constant fill-ups. This was a pain each time to arrange and with the bad weather last year we were always worried if we would get a delivery. I think you can use up to a 2000 litre tank in the domestic setting (which again can only hold 80% of this capacity) but even so this isn't that big for a 5-bed house. With oil you can buy a tank up to 5000 litres and so fill-up at the best time of year and be confident it will last you through the winter when of course the price increases most!

3) Standing charge for LPG really peeved me off too!

4) As pointed out litre per litre oil has more bang for your buck so the slightly higher cost of a litre of oil vs a litre of LPG didn't phase me too much. I think a litre of LPG should be around 1/3 cheaper than a litre of oil to be comparable due to the different energy contents.

For the above reasons oil seemed like a much better bet and so we went down this route. We figure the work will pay for itself in about 3-4 years assuming that LPG and oil price rise at the same rate.

It did, however, feel a bit retrograde to switch from LPG to oil instead of going down the renewables route. However I discounted renewables on a couple of grounds:

1) Ground source heat pump - not convinced our property is ideal as it was build in the 1930s and whilst we have done the obvious insulation routes (eg. loft insulation, cavity wall) I don't think it is inherently well-insulated enough to make a source pump cost-effective. To work around this (eg. install massively oversized radiators) would have been cost prohibitive. I was also worried by the horror stories I've read about heat pumps as failure/success is very dependent on the installer getting their calcs right and rightly or wrongly I wasn't confident enough in the local installers to get it right. Plus I feared it would be more expensive to fix if it went wrong.

2) Wood boiler - we have a couple of stoves already so this was an attractive option but ultimately I didn't fancy loading this manually every day and we don't really have enough space for one with an automated feed.

Standalone stoves are a good way to supplement oil but remember a stove will only heat one room. With the cost of installation and the cost of good wood it's not the cheap option is may appear.

Hope that is some help!

Great post which nicely sums up the process we went through too when the horror of LPG sunk in...

jennye2022

ilikecookies wrote: »

jennye2022,

We found ourselves in a very similar situation to you a year or so ago when we bought our 5-bed out in the sticks which was on LPG at the time.

We were getting through about 700 litres every 3 weeks which back then was equating to about £100 a week. And we only had the heating on for about 6 hours a day! Our usage was particularly high as we had an old and inefficient Rayburn (20 years plus old) and poor levels of insulation. What made things even worse was that every month or so Flogas (boo hiss) put the price of LPG up, rising from 39ppl when we moved in to 57.5ppl six months later!

As such we had a dilemma about the best way forward, eg:

1) In the short term the cheapest option was just to replace the Rayburn with a modern LPG boiler (at a cost of approx £2000).
2) Switch to oil which required an oil tank and new boiler (approx £5000).
3) Switch to renewables such as a ground source heat pump or a wood/pellet boiler (which cost wise could have been anywhere between £10k-£20k).
4) Investing in cavity wall and loft insulation (approx £500) - this was a no-brainer and we did this straightaway as it would support any of the other options above.

In the end we decided we wanted to get away from LPG for a couple of reasons:

1) Lack of a competitive market for LPG - based on the unfettered price increases we saw over just 6 months we concluded that the LPG market is uncompetitive and unfair. Once you sign a contract you are at the mercy of your supplier. This is not the case for oil - we have 10+ suppliers in our region and so can haggle each time we need a fill on price.

2) Limited ability to buy in bulk with LPG - we had a 1200 litre tank which could only hold 80% of capacity as gas needs room to expand. As a result we found we drained a tank in just 3 weeks and so needed constant fill-ups. This was a pain each time to arrange and with the bad weather last year we were always worried if we would get a delivery. I think you can use up to a 2000 litre tank in the domestic setting (which again can only hold 80% of this capacity) but even so this isn't that big for a 5-bed house. With oil you can buy a tank up to 5000 litres and so fill-up at the best time of year and be confident it will last you through the winter when of course the price increases most!

3) Standing charge for LPG really peeved me off too!

4) As pointed out litre per litre oil has more bang for your buck so the slightly higher cost of a litre of oil vs a litre of LPG didn't phase me too much. I think a litre of LPG should be around 1/3 cheaper than a litre of oil to be comparable due to the different energy contents.

For the above reasons oil seemed like a much better bet and so we went down this route. We figure the work will pay for itself in about 3-4 years assuming that LPG and oil price rise at the same rate.

It did, however, feel a bit retrograde to switch from LPG to oil instead of going down the renewables route. However I discounted renewables on a couple of grounds:

1) Ground source heat pump - not convinced our property is ideal as it was build in the 1930s and whilst we have done the obvious insulation routes (eg. loft insulation, cavity wall) I don't think it is inherently well-insulated enough to make a source pump cost-effective. To work around this (eg. install massively oversized radiators) would have been cost prohibitive. I was also worried by the horror stories I've read about heat pumps as failure/success is very dependent on the installer getting their calcs right and rightly or wrongly I wasn't confident enough in the local installers to get it right. Plus I feared it would be more expensive to fix if it went wrong.

2) Wood boiler - we have a couple of stoves already so this was an attractive option but ultimately I didn't fancy loading this manually every day and we don't really have enough space for one with an automated feed.

Standalone stoves are a good way to supplement oil but remember a stove will only heat one room. With the cost of installation and the cost of good wood it's not the cheap option is may appear.

Hope that is some help!

Thank you so much your post has been extremely helpful definitely something to look into once our contract ends thanks again x

jennye2022

ilikecookies wrote: »

jennye2022,

We found ourselves in a very similar situation to you a year or so ago when we bought our 5-bed out in the sticks which was on LPG at the time.

We were getting through about 700 litres every 3 weeks which back then was equating to about £100 a week. And we only had the heating on for about 6 hours a day! Our usage was particularly high as we had an old and inefficient Rayburn (20 years plus old) and poor levels of insulation. What made things even worse was that every month or so Flogas (boo hiss) put the price of LPG up, rising from 39ppl when we moved in to 57.5ppl six months later!

As such we had a dilemma about the best way forward, eg:

1) In the short term the cheapest option was just to replace the Rayburn with a modern LPG boiler (at a cost of approx £2000).
2) Switch to oil which required an oil tank and new boiler (approx £5000).
3) Switch to renewables such as a ground source heat pump or a wood/pellet boiler (which cost wise could have been anywhere between £10k-£20k).
4) Investing in cavity wall and loft insulation (approx £500) - this was a no-brainer and we did this straightaway as it would support any of the other options above.

In the end we decided we wanted to get away from LPG for a couple of reasons:

1) Lack of a competitive market for LPG - based on the unfettered price increases we saw over just 6 months we concluded that the LPG market is uncompetitive and unfair. Once you sign a contract you are at the mercy of your supplier. This is not the case for oil - we have 10+ suppliers in our region and so can haggle each time we need a fill on price.

2) Limited ability to buy in bulk with LPG - we had a 1200 litre tank which could only hold 80% of capacity as gas needs room to expand. As a result we found we drained a tank in just 3 weeks and so needed constant fill-ups. This was a pain each time to arrange and with the bad weather last year we were always worried if we would get a delivery. I think you can use up to a 2000 litre tank in the domestic setting (which again can only hold 80% of this capacity) but even so this isn't that big for a 5-bed house. With oil you can buy a tank up to 5000 litres and so fill-up at the best time of year and be confident it will last you through the winter when of course the price increases most!

3) Standing charge for LPG really peeved me off too!

4) As pointed out litre per litre oil has more bang for your buck so the slightly higher cost of a litre of oil vs a litre of LPG didn't phase me too much. I think a litre of LPG should be around 1/3 cheaper than a litre of oil to be comparable due to the different energy contents.

For the above reasons oil seemed like a much better bet and so we went down this route. We figure the work will pay for itself in about 3-4 years assuming that LPG and oil price rise at the same rate.

It did, however, feel a bit retrograde to switch from LPG to oil instead of going down the renewables route. However I discounted renewables on a couple of grounds:

1) Ground source heat pump - not convinced our property is ideal as it was build in the 1930s and whilst we have done the obvious insulation routes (eg. loft insulation, cavity wall) I don't think it is inherently well-insulated enough to make a source pump cost-effective. To work around this (eg. install massively oversized radiators) would have been cost prohibitive. I was also worried by the horror stories I've read about heat pumps as failure/success is very dependent on the installer getting their calcs right and rightly or wrongly I wasn't confident enough in the local installers to get it right. Plus I feared it would be more expensive to fix if it went wrong.

2) Wood boiler - we have a couple of stoves already so this was an attractive option but ultimately I didn't fancy loading this manually every day and we don't really have enough space for one with an automated feed.

Standalone stoves are a good way to supplement oil but remember a stove will only heat one room. With the cost of installation and the cost of good wood it's not the cheap option is may appear.

Hope that is some help!

Thank you so much your post has been extremely helpful definitely something to look into once our contract ends thanks again x

denise38

Hi when we built our house my husband did the figures and decided oil was better for us than LPG. I have a five bed house and all water is from oil 2 adults 3 girls so lots of water used. Live in Scotland and heating is on every morning and twice from 3 till 9 pm. I have only spent £500 in oil since end of august beg of sept. Tank was filled 2 weeks ago.