So very angry right now!!

milliebear00001

Gingham_R wrote: »

As an English teacher I'd teach three times that. As head of PSE I would teach 6 times that.

I asked. It was that simple. I'd find out part of the story and if I needed more I'd ask for it.

It's not difficult - really it's not. And it's not particularly time consuming.

Every morning we'd have staff shout and people would bring up new issues with the children - if any parents had phoned in etc. For example, a girl in my form lost her grandma and wanted to wear her grandma's ring though there was a no jewellery policy. I announced that morning that she'd be wearing it on a chain under her blouse for a couple of weeks and would staff please let her do this. Job done.

Another boy had surgery on his heart. As well as spending some time visiting him in hospital, I helped prepare for his return by ensuring that other children would be escorting him round school and that one class had a room swap so he didn't have to climb any stairs.

Another child developed diabetes and I found out through staff shout so I made sure I spoke to him discretely at the end of a lesson about what he needed work wise (eg more time on homework like the little girl with cystic fibrosis) while I found out what I'd need to do in an emergency.

Another child in my form had asperger's and I would look after him and a friend at breaks and before school until I became exhausted with having no breaks and made sure he had support from the learning mentors and I would take him there with his friend to play safely.

Or another 3 children whose dad had died falling down the stairs at home (I found out how because I asked) and I would make sure if I spotted any signs of upset they'd be allowed to step outside with a friend or I'd talk to them after class or whatever needed to be done at the time.

And so on and so on. Either teachers do this or they're not supporting their emotional needs.

And, sorry, if a teacher only has 30 students, I think it's shocking that they wouldn't cater for their needs. My eldest's school teacher has a note on top of every day's planning to remind her to remind my son of something. There are other children's names there so she doesn't forget. How is that difficult?

And as a form tutor, you might well have known (although then you might not have had any real details four years afterwards), but as a science teacher, which is what we're talking about here, you simply wouldn't have access to that information, or be able to keep track of it every time you taught a lesson that might impact on every child in some way.

At my primary school, details are shared on a completely 'need to know' basis. We are not given any information beyond the very least amount necessary. So, I too, would know that child x had lost her father - I might have know she was present. I would be very unlikely to be told anything beyond that.

If you want a completely personalised education system, you would need to teach pretty much one to one - complaining constantly about the fact that teachers don't teach your child, and only your child, isn't going to change anything at all. The solution is to home school. Otherwise, it will always be a 'best fit' approach when it comes to lessons and curriculum design in state education (not to mention pretty much everything else in life).

By your surprise at the lack of info given to teachers these days, I would suggest things in schools have changed in the last decade more than you realised.

Gingham_R

milliebear00001 wrote: »

And as a form tutor, you might well have known (although then you might not have had any real details four years afterwards), but as a science teacher, which is what we're talking about here, you simply wouldn't have access to that information, or be able to keep track of it every time you taught a lesson that might impact on every child in some way.

At my primary school, details are shared on a completely 'need to know' basis. We are not given any information beyond the very least amount necessary. So, I too, would know that child x had lost her father - I might have know she was present. I would be very unlikely to be told anything beyond that.

If you want a completely personalised education system, you would need to teach pretty much one to one - complaining constantly about the fact that teachers don't teach your child, and only your child, isn't going to change anything at all. The solution is to home school. Otherwise, it will always be a 'best fit' approach when it comes to lessons and curriculum design in state education (not to mention pretty much everything else in life).


By your surprise at the lack of info given to teachers these days, I would suggest things in schools have changed in the last decade more than you realised.

I work in schools, but not as a teacher. Things haven't changed that much. Much of it is change for the better but obviously some schools aren't putting a premium on the social and emotional needs of children, which is very sad to hear. I'm glad to say that the schools I've been in are much more aware and responsive to those needs. There are packs for supply teachers that give more information than what some of you above are describing.

Most of what I was talking about was as a subject teacher, not a form tutor, though naturally I knew that little bit more about my form than I'd expect the subject teachers to.

We dont' need it to be completely personalised.

We need:

Care and high consideration for social and emotional issues
Care and high consideration for special needs
Opportunities for children to ask questions in class and voice their opinions where that is useful - eg opinions on the best ways to work out a problem in maths, thoughts on disease in Biology, endless opportunities in PSE and English, naturally, RE too.

(I have a lot of evidence of why things things are so important and how they improve grades.)

It's not rocket science. It is within the reach of ALL teachers.

However, I agree that one teacher will make little difference to most children. It takes EVERY teacher to give a child with a poor family life the first chance.

Gingham_R

I also didn't understand this bit:

complaining constantly about the fact that teachers don't teach your child, and only your child, isn't going to change anything at all.

What did you mean?

milliebear00001

Gingham_R wrote: »

I work in schools, but not as a teacher. Things haven't changed that much. Much of it is change for the better but obviously some schools aren't putting a premium on the social and emotional needs of children, which is very sad to hear. I'm glad to say that the schools I've been in are much more aware and responsive to those needs. There are packs for supply teachers that give more information than what some of you above are describing.

Most of what I was talking about was as a subject teacher, not a form tutor, though naturally I knew that little bit more about my form than I'd expect the subject teachers to.

We dont' need it to be completely personalised.

We need:

Care and high consideration for social and emotional issues
Care and high consideration for special needs
Opportunities for children to ask questions in class and voice their opinions where that is useful - eg opinions on the best ways to work out a problem in maths, thoughts on disease in Biology, endless opportunities in PSE and English, naturally, RE too.

(I have a lot of evidence of why things things are so important and how they improve grades.)

It's not rocket science. It is within the reach of ALL teachers.

However, I agree that one teacher will make little difference to most children. It takes EVERY teacher to give a child with a poor family life the first chance.

We all know the evidence GR - it still makes no difference.

Unless you are actually working as a teacher now, you can't claim to have any real understanding of how the changed demands and requirements have really impacted on teachers' workloads. It is impossible to do what we are being asked to do as it is. I know nobody who works less than a 60 hour week, just to keep on top of the paperwork demands. Wrong priorities? You bet! We don't like it either, but it's the way it is. If you don't like it, you need to attack the people who make it so - not blame the teachers who would give their right arm to have the time to treat every child as an individual, instead of just a grade making machine.

Most of us do our best.

milliebear00001

Gingham_R wrote: »

I also didn't understand this bit:


What did you mean?

Classic example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16836497

Impulsive pupils learn best if they are allowed to shout out in class. Fine, say I - but how does this affect the learning of the other 29?

Often, teachers have to balance the needs of one (or a few) alongside the needs of many. It usually requires some firm of compromise (on both sides). Many parents though (and teachers) are not happy when its their child making the compromise. Parents care about their child, we (as teachers) have to care about, and balance the needs of, all of the children in our care to the best of our ability - much more difficult and something many parents fail to understand or make allowances for.

Gingham_R

I have no doubt you're doing your best. I'm saying that there's nothing in the new systems that stop you doing what I describe. It's happening in schools now and there's no reason it can't happen in every school.

I'm not blaming individual teachers; I'm saying that the priorities are skewed if we don't know who we're teaching and what their needs are. That is BASIC stuff. I'm sorry but it really is. You can't teach a dyslexic child without taking into account that child's needs. You can't teach an abused child without being acutely aware that they may not appreciate being approached from out of their line of vision. You can't teach an autistic child and expect them to be able to put their hand up and ask for help and you can't expect a child with executive function problems to remember where they put their homework without support.

It's not a one size fits all system unless no-one is prepared to deal with difference.

milliebear00001

Gingham_R wrote: »

I have no doubt you're doing your best. I'm saying that there's nothing in the new systems that stop you doing what I describe. It's happening in schools now and there's no reason it can't happen in every school.

I'm not blaming individual teachers; I'm saying that the priorities are skewed if we don't know who we're teaching and what their needs are. That is BASIC stuff. I'm sorry but it really is. You can't teach a dyslexic child without taking into account that child's needs. You can't teach an abused child without being acutely aware that they may not appreciate being approached from out of their line of vision. You can't teach an autistic child and expect them to be able to put their hand up and ask for help and you can't expect a child with executive function problems to remember where they put their homework without support.

It's not a one size fits all system unless no-one is prepared to deal with difference.

I didn't say it was one size fits all. The dyslexic or autistic child you mention would be catered for, and probably catered for well. It is the children with far less obvious needs who slip through the net.

Another example is the requirement close to your own heart to cater adequately for gifted children. Many of these won't get anywhere near the amount of attention they require, because the staffing and funding is aimed at those dyslexic and autistic children (and those with other special needs) many of whom don't get enough funding and specialised attention as it is. Are the parents of the gifted child happy - of course not - but they often don't have the full picture of the competing needs of children within that school and local authority.

Gingham_R

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Classic example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16836497

Impulsive pupils learn best if they are allowed to shout out in class. Fine, say I - but how does this affect the learning of the other 29?

Often, teachers have to balance the needs of one (or a few) alongside the needs of many. It usually requires some firm of compromise (on both sides). Many parents though (and teachers) are not happy when its their child making the compromise. Parents care about their child, we (as teachers) have to care about, and balance the needs of, all of the children in our care to the best of our ability - much more difficult and something many parents fail to understand or make allowances for.

Parents are often the child's only advocate so I'm not surprised that many of them feel unhappy when their child is asked to compromise. Often that compromise is not a compromise at all - it's a 'sorry, we can't help' dressed up to look like a compromise.

I'm very interested in this 'shouting out' issue. Sylvia Rimm says she's rarely taught a gifted child who didn't shout out answers. ADHD type symptoms can cause a child to call out not just because of impulsiveness but also because of short term memory problems - either call out or forget what the answer was. And a child who is calling out is listening and engaged unlike many who are sitting quietly and drifting off in their heads.

There are ways round it in the classroom. The Read Write Inc training for example puts emphasis on getting kids to tell each other the answers, or answer chorally or several other ideas, none of which involve putting hands up, which has several problems associated with it not least the calling out. Susan Weinbrenner also has some sensible solutions. These methods both reduce the calling out AND the daydreaming.

So no compromise needed there - just a different way of approaching the issue.

Gingham_R

I'll add though that I'm not putting down teachers. Training needs to be focused and high quality and that is down to management and financial issues. But there are lots of solutions if we look for them.

Gingham_R

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Are the parents of the gifted child happy - of course not - but they often don't have the full picture of the competing needs of children within that school and local authority.

You've raised an interesting point and are right that it's dear to my heart. I was not at all happy with my eldest's first 3 years of schooling and I believe that it wasn't because of the competing needs of the other children, but the lack of understanding of the complex needs of high gifted children that was the issue - again a training issue and not the individual teachers.

Again, this is easily solved in the classroom if teachers and management are prepared to take risks. For example, remembering that children need to be learning in class - not necessarily being taught.