Chancel Repair Liability Insurance

RufusFrog_2

And another thing. Why do you need the expensive second survey? If the property is in such a parish why can't you just write to the parish office, (quoting Freedom of Information Act), and ask them to send a map showing exactly where the qualifying property is situated?

Also has anyone tried the 'You can't get me, I'm a nonconformist/athiest/Jew etc. defence?'

Richard_Webster

If the property is 500 years old and called 'Canon's Rest' or somesuch, get the insurance sharpish but if it's 20 years old and is on what was previously agricultural land and is agricultural land on every historic map you can find in your county library back to the year dot then it's clearly not likely to be the site of the property of a previous 'lay canon'

Sorry, but it doesn't have to be a building. The 'lay rector' could have owned a large piece of agricultural land that could be affected. So if the house you are buying is 20 years old this hasn't got anything to do with anything. It could be affected with the liability.

Yes, it is back protection on solicitors' part to some extent. If our buyer client is paying cash he can choose to take the risk and many will, but if a mortgage lender is involved we have to protect their interests, because if something goes wrong later they sue us!

Whilst it is fairly easy to get in touch with an individual client and explain some small risk factor and for the client to say he is not bothered about it - try getting a lender to give you an answer about this sort of thing. They just do not have staff able to answer solicitor's questions of this nature and they do not issue circulars saying things like "We do not require you to carry out searches in respect of Chancel Reapir Liabilities...". If we raise this sort of point we could be weeks and weeks waiting for an answer - so for a lot of clients the bottom line is to pay the £60 ish to save the potential delay!

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients

Richard_Webster

If the property is in such a parish why can't you just write to the parish office, (quoting Freedom of Information Act), and ask them to send a map showing exactly where the qualifying property is situated?

Very unlikely the average parish office would have a clue about the point! And in the very unlikely event that they did, you would be inviting them to remember you if their Chancel needed repair!

The reality is that the governement hopes the whole thing will die a death following the deadline for registration in 2013. That's prbably what will happen, but we can't be sure - hence all the fuss!

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients

RufusFrog_2

Sorry, the first post was a rather unwellthoughtout rant because I despise insurance companies and ludicrous unfair taxes (I hope that was obvious). I should have read the linked case and seen that it was Glebe Land, not an actual house involved. (Actually our house is on Glebe Land!)

I still feel it is extraordinary (and wrong) that the Church is winning these cases. Where a property/position comes with benefits (tithes) and responsibilities (chancel maintenance), I believe that natural justice dictates that the removal of one side of the equation is a clear breach of contract and the agreement becomes void.

Richard_Webster wrote:

Very unlikely the average parish office would have a clue about the point! And in the very unlikely event that they did, you would be inviting them to remember you if their Chancel needed repair!

As for the parish office not knowing, I thought this had to be registered somewhere, maybe it's the Church Commissioners. But I get the point, if the buyer stirs up trouble and puts the seller out of pocket, he can and probably will be sued.

But I don't have to like it!

BenP_2

1. Do not rush out to investigate Chancel Repair Liability beyond getting a "basic" Chancel Check Search if you own the land - if you find out the property is liable then you are required to disclose this to all future purchasers and you will be unlikely to be able to obtain insurance to protect against the liability.
2. A basic "Chancel Check" Search is not definitive, a "certificate" i.e. clear response does not mean that your property is not affected by this liability - just that the risk is low. a "report" does not mean that the property is affected by this liability - just that there is a medium-high risk. Mostly they get their information from the National Archive public records - see note from the National Archive re their records on Chancel Repair - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/Leaflets/ri2251.htm)
3. Do not contact your local Parochial Church Council/Vicar/Diocese etc - if you ask them any questions about this liability it will invalidate your ability to obtain insurance cheaply.
4. Most insurance products to cover this liability are very poor - most will not cover loss of value only a limited liability (amount it will pay out) for a limited period of time (usually 25 years). If your solicitor/conveyancer is recommending you take out this type of policy ask that he confirms it will cover the value of the property + the amount of any likely initial claim from the church (the few policies that do cover loss of value require that the church makes a claim before you get the loss of value cover) and that it DOES cover loss of value if a claim is made. The insurance offered by the same company that does the Chancel Check Search (https://www.clsl.co.uk) does cover loss of value in these circumstances - I have also been told by them that they will shortly be removing the time limit so that the policy lasts for all time until the limit of indemnity is all used up.

Usually insurance is fairly cheap - Yes the insurance companies are raking it in for relatively low risk - but if you happen to be one of the poor people that are affected by this you will lose all value in your house and may not be able to repay your mortgage either - would you want that?

If you are a Seller try to agree only to pay the insurance premium to cover the buyer - not their sucessors as well - get them to pay the difference in premium for this "upgraded" policy!

Oh and by the way - don't think that this liability ends in 2013 if it isn't registered - thats not the way it works - if you sell your property after the relevant date in 2013 and neither you or the buyer know that the church have the right to claim chancel repair liability then the liability will not pass to the new buyer - until you sell after the relevant date the liability can still be registered - even after the 2013 date!

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients

Richard_Webster

I agree with the last post.

Cheeky blighter, he's even nicked my disclaimer!

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

pickles110564

Hi
I have just been asked for £155 from my buyers solicitors to cover this liability, I do not agree with it but it is small change compared with profit from house sale and future profit on the next one

Tosh1

We're purchasing our first property and found were at a 'high risk' of this liability.

At first I was not going to get the insurance; it just sounded so wrong, but after some further investigation I'm just going to cough up for the 25 year cover; it's about 80 quid (I think) and forget about it.

If, however, I did get hit with a claim; they're lucky I'm not a Muslim otherwise the local vicar would end up getting a Fatwah on his 'ead!

number_5

im buying a house and had never heard of chancel repair insurance either. I spoke to my solicitor who told me its just a con by the insurance companies making easy money as theyve convinced lenders and the government that its needed, so you cant have a mortgage without it, infact theyve had the government extend the deadline for 2 years on the grounds that the church dont have time to do the work needed to find out who's house in on parish grounds. We cant even find out any details of which church it might be as there are several in a mile radius of the house.
I told my solicitor i was reluctant to pay for something I may not need, but she reminded me I cant have a mortgage without it.
Id like to be driving a ferrari in the next 25 years aswell but it may not happen so Im not going to start paying insurance for one now.
Apparently it stems from a case where an entire village has become liable for a huge church repair under a medevil law that was never quashed as its not been used in living memory.
Ive been lucky in the sense that the quote is £47, other people in the area have been quoted between £20 and £200

Leory

number_5 wrote: »

im buying a house and had never heard of chancel repair insurance either. I spoke to my solicitor who told me its just a con by the insurance companies making easy money as theyve convinced lenders and the government that its needed, so you cant have a mortgage without it, infact theyve had the government extend the deadline for 2 years on the grounds that the church dont have time to do the work needed to find out who's house in on parish grounds. We cant even find out any details of which church it might be as there are several in a mile radius of the house.
I told my solicitor i was reluctant to pay for something I may not need, but she reminded me I cant have a mortgage without it.
Id like to be driving a ferrari in the next 25 years aswell but it may not happen so Im not going to start paying insurance for one now.
Apparently it stems from a case where an entire village has become liable for a huge church repair under a medevil law that was never quashed as its not been used in living memory.
Ive been lucky in the sense that the quote is £47, other people in the area have been quoted between £20 and £200

you can have a mortgage without it, it is just that you may (very unlikely) have a very large cost to pay if they ask you for it.

for the worry of it and the small cost of taking the insurance compared to other costs, most take it.