The Austerity Disaster

StevieJ

vivatifosi wrote: »

Blimey, that shoe's as big as the car in the background. No wonder it is trainer of choice for Mr Big.

BTW Viva I thought you worked in a library and also sat on some pension fund committee, didn't realise you worked for yourself.

StevieJ

Conrad wrote: »

High productivty you say - you honestly think we are inately more productive than the Chinese, where is your evidence for such a claim?
.

Productivty is not just about 18 hour day sweat shops, it is more about investment and technology, British business has woefully underinvested in the UK over the years which is so sad considering the technological acorns that they have had to play with

A study by MITI - Japan's equivalent of the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) - concluded that 54% of the world's most important inventions were British. Of the rest, 25% were American and 5% Japanese.

There are many other examples that can be quoted. Undoubtedly Britain remains one of the leaders in science and innovation and America remains one of the great countries for bringing ideas to market.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_country_has_produced_the_most_inventions

purch

StevieJ wrote: »

It is not really about that though is it? Could you actually live in the UK on the wage paid to a Chinese worker before or after tax? Of course when exchange rates find their proper equilibrium and Chinese workers become (dare I say it ) Bolshy/Commie, the cost advantages may not be quite so pronounced.

I am sure that will happen in time, but quite where we as a nation are at that time is open to question.

michaels

1'18" (PG Advisory on the lyrics) :rotfl:

vivatifosi wrote: »

Blimey, that shoe's as big as the car in the background. No wonder it is trainer of choice for Mr Big.

vivatifosi

StevieJ wrote: »

BTW Viva I thought you worked in a library and also sat on some pension fund committee, didn't realise you worked for yourself.

I run my own business, work in a library, sit on a pension fund board and am a director of a resident's management company. I'm a bit bored though so may look for something else to add to that:D. Initially I worked in the library to earn a bit more money in the downturn, now I do it because it is very social, whereas my line of work involves a lot of sitting at a computer by myself. I like the mix. I am a portfolio worker.

Generali

Conrad wrote: »

I'm interested in your thoughts on the usual line trotted out that 'we must'nt make this a race to the bottom' (people like Mark Lewis, Poly Toignbe and Will Self always use this line).

They imply we can wrest control over the market and pretty much demand high incomes, high pensions, long paternity pay and such.

Am I missing something or are these folk just not practical thinkers, in so far as they somehow mentally decouple thier bargain buying habits from thier demands for cosetting British workers?

Those middle class socialist 'thinkers' seem to have completely missed the point that you make. I suspect the reason is that they think that 'the rich' should pay higher taxes to maintain the status quo. The problem is that there aren't that many rich people and fewer still that think of themselves as being rich.

Paying 40% tax puts you in the top 15% of earners. Earning £120,000 a year means you have left the 99% behind in the UK.

My feeling is that the logical conclusion of Toynbee et al's argument is that you impose taxes on imports to create a 'level playing field'. That just makes everyone worse off of course.

In terms of where we go from here, there are signs that wages in China and white-collar India are rising very fast and there appears to be evidence that manufacturing is starting to be repatriated to the US.

Part of the problem is the Internet. You can no longer be the second best in a market and thrive. I buy almost nothing from local bike shops as the prices are shockingly high. I get everything from wiggle.co.uk and so does every cyclist I know in Aus. Local bike shops will go bust as a result but that's the way things are. If it wasn't, the British High St would be full of blacksmiths and fullers twiddling their thumbs.

Conrad

Generali wrote: »

Earning £120,000 a year means you have left the 99% behind in the UK.

This 99% notion is just about the most misleading thing I keep comming accross.

I can't be bothered to go into detail but lets just say a take home actual pay of £1500 per week (£120k gross), especially between ordinary couples, is absolutely and completely normal in the South East where I am. The town where I work is very ordinarty, in fact chavy, and just full of 'The Only Way Is Essex' personas. Most are aspirant and have more than one property and £1500 per week is chicken feed, BUT thier Tax returns of course do not reflect this.


Sometimes people doubt this claim of mine.
Can I just ask you to take a drive around the home counties and down into Hants and Dorset, and whilst there are plenty of poorer parts, there are endless acres of very expensive properties accross thousands of square miles.

I had to go through the outskirts of London / Herts the other week, through Radlet, Amersham, Chroley Wood, Hadley Wood, though dozens of wealthy villages and up to Hertford. Just endless wealth. For sure some of it on tick, but by the same token plenty of it real and Banked.

According to the £120k figure I'm in the top 1% but nothing could be so laughable. We cannot afford to go skiing, yet most of our neighbours and folk we know can and they have better houses and cars.

We are one of the less well off families here and just cannot believe the money people have but I bet many of them for one reason or another fly under the £120k radar. To give a typical example other folk we know have £15000 villa holidays and I promise you this is not even one of the really wealthy places such as Surbiton, no where near those levels.


I never forget going to Romford thinking it would be a fairly grim cheap old place. Well I ended up having to go right around the skirting backroads and even into Barkin and to my surprise massive numbers of huge houses with £1m price tags, and thats not even supposed to be a wealthy area.

I come accross totaly ordinary London clients, for example a senior nurse and her partner a fireman making £100k pa, because he has a cash in hand second job and she also works nursing agencies. This is just middle of the road common or garden stuff.

wherediditallgothen

IronWolf wrote: »

Why is everything always the governments fault? Have people not realised yet that there are some things the government cant do anything about, and a global depression is one of them.

You can't do anything about a tornado, granted, but suffice to say standing outside in the middle of a field as it hits isn't the smartest way to go.

grizzly1911

Conrad wrote: »

This 99% notion is just about the most misleading thing I keep comming accross.

I can't be bothered to go into detail but lets just say a take home actual pay of £1500 per week (£120k gross), especially between ordinary couples, is absolutely and completely normal in the South East where I am. The town where I work is very ordinarty, in fact chavy, and just full of 'The Only Way Is Essex' personas. Most are aspirant and have more than one property and £1500 per week is chicken feed, BUT thier Tax returns of course do not reflect this.


Sometimes people doubt this claim of mine.
Can I just ask you to take a drive around the home counties and down into Hants and Dorset, and whilst there are plenty of poorer parts, there are endless acres of very expensive properties accross thousands of square miles.

I had to go through the outskirts of London / Herts the other week, through Radlet, Amersham, Chroley Wood, Hadley Wood, though dozens of wealthy villages and up to Hertford. Just endless wealth. For sure some of it on tick, but by the same token plenty of it real and Banked.

According to the £120k figure I'm in the top 1% but nothing could be so laughable. We cannot afford to go skiing, yet most of our neighbours and folk we know can and they have better houses and cars.

We are one of the less well off families here and just cannot believe the money people have but I bet many of them for one reason or another fly under the £120k radar. To give a typical example other folk we know have £15000 villa holidays and I promise you this is not even one of the really wealthy places such as Surbiton, no where near those levels.


I never forget going to Romford thinking it would be a fairly grim cheap old place. Well I ended up having to go right around the skirting backroads and even into Barkin and to my surprise massive numbers of huge houses with £1m price tags, and thats not even supposed to be a wealthy area.

I come accross totaly ordinary London clients, for example a senior nurse and her partner a fireman making £100k pa, because he has a cash in hand second job and she also works nursing agencies. This is just middle of the road common or garden stuff.

I think this is a big part of the reason for the wheels falling off in this country.

The North South divide. Yes we have smart areas up here , the Golden Triangle south of Manchester for instance but there is a lot less of it.

So many of the economic arguments are based on and centered around the SE. I wonder how many outside the SE are affected by the benefit cap proposals for instance, yet it consumes so much energy whilst real problems in the NE, for example, get little real interest.

I would be happy to buy more "British" but apart form isolated niche items they don't exist.

M&S didn't move supply to the East because we demanded it they went there to maximise profit.

Successive Governments have presided over the wholesale dismantling of Britains income generating businesses, from manufacturing to utilities. In the last 30 years we have sold the silver to keep us afloat, then allowed personal debt to be maxed, prudently acquired wealth to be mortgaged to the hilt and there is basically nothing else to sell.

Without a wealth generation base all the well heeled parasites will slowly fall too.

Drove down Amersham high street last summer and felt like I should have wiped my car tyres first;)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

An interesting piece on Jeff Randall just now with a Barclays analyst noting that any further Austerity measures would be both undeliverable and counterproductive.

The man is clearly an Idiot...

Greek austerity crossed the threshold of undeliverable and counterproductive quite some time ago. :cool: