Dad living in my house - is he a tenant?

BigAunty

londonTiger wrote: »

...The goods news is he is your family member, so you have leeway to move around it. he could be contributing towards your mortgage rather than having a formal client:tenant relationship.

Once a person accepts rent from an occupier of the property they no longer live in, even if they are related, they grant a tenancy. It might not be their intention, they may be happy to keep everything informal, there may not be any written contracts, but the act of accepting rent means a tenancy is formed. They may be father and son but they are also landlord and tenant.

Because they have a personal relationship, it may be possible for the OP to negotiate a surrender of the tenancy without having to issue written formal notice.

However, it should be clear that the tenant is not likely to move out of their own volition since they will find it hard to find a landlord that will let them live in squalor for £25 a week, root through their private post and emotionally blackmail for having the temerity to have a girlfriend...

Therefore, the only way for the OP to get his father out, if he won't leave, is through serving formal notice and then possibly enforcing it in the courts, and then finally perhaps having to enforce the court order with baillifs.

cuffey

Thanks BigAunty. That is now my understanding of the situation.

I have emailed one of the other leaseholders to see if I can get any information and paperwork and to see if the new longer lease is sorted out yet. I feel I need to show them I exist.

I have also got my head out of the sand and started looking through the paperwork I do have, which is not a lot, but a start at least. I have a letter from this other leaseholder saying that the floor and plumbing must be sorted out because it is putting the other flats at risk, so I want to know what the update is on this. Ultimately I am responsible for this, not dad, so I need to take control of what's happening. I find this terrifying because I just don't know about this sort of thing.

Dad is now saying he's very ill (he's going for a cataract op this week). He's suggesting that it's more than just a cataract although no actual details, just vague. He had the other eye done just before Christmas. Perhaps he would be better in sheltered housing . . . . . might suggest that. Almost impossible to get a straight answer. I think it's a bluff but what if it isn't?

This process is all part of a need to get on top of my finances generally and be a grown up. I've been paying stuff for years that I don't need. I have been to the bank and downgraded my account to an ordinary one. I have been paying £13 a month for various benefits. When GF looked she pointed out that none of them were any use to me, like breakdown cover when I don't drive. I've been too trusting again!!

I'm very lucky not to be in any debt (other than the mortgage of course), but I am ultimately an absolute ostrich.

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

...

Dad is now saying he's very ill (he's going for a cataract op this week). He's suggesting that it's more than just a cataract although no actual details, just vague. He had the other eye done just before Christmas. Perhaps he would be better in sheltered housing . . . . . might suggest that. Almost impossible to get a straight answer. I think it's a bluff but what if it isn't?

...

How old is your father?

Your father may well have other health issues, or fake ones, but can't expect you to subsidise him and ruin the other flats in the building, for the remaining decades of his life.

My MIL had surgery for cataracts in both eyes last year. This is a really simple operation, btw.

"Cataract surgery is one of the most common and quickest forms of surgery. Many people are able to return to their usual daily routine 24 hours after having the operation.The procedure to remove a cataract usually lasts 30-45 minutes, and vision is improved almost immediately. After cataract surgery, most people will need to wear glasses for either near or distance vision, or both. However, once these have been fitted, about 95% of people will have normal vision."

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Cataract-surgery/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Yes, look into housing in your local area for the over 50s/over 60s, both private and social housing and present the information to your father. This will help to set expectations that he must leave, though it will also continue to trigger episodes of resistence.

In the last 24 hours, it is apparent that you are now the meanest son in the world, breaking both your mother's poor heart and turfing out your sick pa from his home.....Diddums. It's only going to crank up to mass hysteria as you progress.

Perhaps he will accept the inevitable and cooperate, particularly if you help him with the research, the paperwork, viewings and gift him the deposit, for example. Or perhaps you need to do this in tandem with serving him formal notice to quit the property, as a backup.

If your father is as knowledgeable about the benefits system as your mother, he will know that the best way to secure social housing is to be evicted, plus his health issues could make him a higher priority for re-housing, too.

So you might be able to persuade him that it is in his interests to be served notice, because he'll be aware that if he leaves of his own volition, he'll be considered to have made himself intentionally homeless and the local council will have no duty of care towards him.

However, if the council believe that you are conspiring to do this, they will also not help.But actually, since you intend to grit your teeth and go ahead, this is not an issue. They also won't help if the tenants actions have resulted in their being served notice, such as anti-social behaviour. Therefore you'd have to serve notice under the S21 process rather than the S8 as the first is known as a 'no fault' notice whereas the S8 gives the landlord specific grounds, such as anti social behaviour.

Many councils will also not step in until a court order is in progress - serving notice is not enough for them to start acting. They shouldn't do this if there is a realistic prospect of the landlord securing possession, but many do.

To help you understand the process for eviction, look at the Landlordzone website, plus the Shelter website also contains info for the tenants point of view.

Look at the Shelter website to give you an understanding of how a local council will treat a homelessness application (homelessness is defined as having no security of tenure within the next 28 days), how they define those in priority need.

Take photos of the condition and damage in the property, too, for your own records.

Is it possible that your dear old sick pa is claiming housing benefit for the property and not telling you? He might not do, since the rent is so low, he is working so might not qualify for much and you've not got a tenancy agreement.

However, if he's as greedy and controlling as your Ma, he might be tempted to apply for local housing allowance and pocket this, as its now paid to directly to tenants and the landlord will not find out. You can find out the maximum LHA rate for a 1 bedroom property on the Direct Gov website. Perhaps you'll come across benefit paperwork in the property when you go to the property looking for mortgage statements and leasehold info.

Have you been submitting tax returns for the rent you've received? Does he pay you in cash or by standing order? How long has he been paying you rent?

cuffey

Wow - thanks for taking so much time and trouble on this.

He had his other eye done before Christmas and it didn't seem a big deal - now it's got mysterious complications, but he can't talk about it for 14 days . . . (I have no idea what that means either).

He's nearly 70, and doesn't work.

No I haven't been submitting tax returns and he pays through his bank. I think he's been paying about 5 years, something like that. It's a mess isn't it.

When you say about housing benefit, I can see he did try this at the beginning because I've found a letter in my stuff that's I've been looking through. He had to repay it because the council said it was 'not a commercial arrangement'. He must have told them I was the landlord. At that time I had a 'live in' job away from the flat. Yet again I just put it in a box and didn't want to think about it.

cuffey

Is it right that because the income is less than £2,500 a year I don't have to complete a tax return?

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

Is it right that because the income is less than £2,500 a year I don't have to complete a tax return?

Not as far as I know.

Landlords with live-in lodgers who pay rent below a certain threshold, about 4 or 4.5k (I forget which) come under the rent a room scheme and don't need to pay tax on it.

For other landlords, I believe they should submit annual tax returns, even if there's no profit.

You should be able to deduct from this valid expenses like repairs (got any receipts?), perhaps the service charge, the interest part of the mortgage. Go to the Landlordzone to find out more about landlord taxes and valid expenses.

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

...

When you say about housing benefit, I can see he did try this at the beginning because I've found a letter in my stuff that's I've been looking through. He had to repay it because the council said it was 'not a commercial arrangement'.

Landlords can let out their properties to tenants to whom they are closely related and the tenants claim housing benefit, so long as they don't live in the same property and it isn't considered a contrived tenancy, set up to take advantage of the housing benefit system. For example, when someone pays rent when they are on benefits but doesn't when they are working. It tends to fail when it isn't considered a commercially run tenancy, for example, no tenancy agreement. So it looks like it failed on those grounds. Google 'contrived tenancy' to find out more about this topic

That may mean that it could be a struggle for him to pay the rent out of his pension, though perhaps he qualifies for pension credit as a top-up or perhaps paying £25 a week rent isn't a big dent in his income.

Perhaps you can reassure him that he'll qualify for full housing benefit at the next property because there will not be any contrived tenancy issues. That might stop him fretting when you tell him to move out - he'd actually be £100 a month better off if he got full HB and didn't have to top up his rent from his state pension.

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

...
He had his other eye done before Christmas and it didn't seem a big deal - now it's got mysterious complications, but he can't talk about it for 14 days . . . (I have no idea what that means either).

Either he's waiting for test results, or he's stalling. At least if he moves into Sheltered Housing, there will be a warden or alarm system.

Have you received any leasehold/freehold bills - communal repairs, etc?

cuffey

No - from my first post:

I own a flat, and lived there initially with my dad. Work and a new relationship meant that I moved a while ago, but my dad remains in the flat paying me a nominal amount towards the mortgage (£100). He pays the utilities etc himself. He doesn't pay me rent or have a proper tenancy agreement.

So if there's a service charge he must pay it.

Sorry if I misled you.

It's just the mortgage I pay, and he contributes towards it.

I seem to have been paying for contents insurance too, but I'm not sure if that was for his stuff there or my stuff here . . . . I have rung them you'll be pleased to know, and they are sending the details.

The mortgage was taken out for their convenience (originally my mother) because they couldn't get one after we were repossessed. That's why it wasn't one for landlords - because I did live there originally.

But my life has moved on and my circumstances are different. I simply didn't know that this was an issue.

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

...

So if there's a service charge he must pay it.

Many landlords pay the service charge on the property or have a contract that stipulates the tenant pays it. But I don't really understand how they work as I've never lived in a property where there is one. Nonetheless, perhaps there been some bills raised for cleaning and repairs in the communal areas? If so, have you paid them?

cuffey wrote: »

...


I seem to have been paying for contents insurance too, but I'm not sure if that was for his stuff there or my stuff here . . . . I have rung them you'll be pleased to know, and they are sending the details.

.

Your current buildings insurance could also be invalid if it's for residential properties, you may need landlord's insurance. Get that sorted asap or if there's a fire, you're in trouble.

If you dad wants his belongings insured, he can take out a policy himself.

As you overhauling all your finances, you will find the MSE budget planner a great thing to download. Then you can work through the site and find out how to slash your expenses.