Dad living in my house - is he a tenant?

paddyz

I have read all posts from the start, but remember the fact is it was a biggest proportion of the flat cost was paid by Mother then son meets a GF, grows some [EMAIL="b@then"]then[/EMAIL] kicks out father and then plans to sell up, so quit rightly she would be concerned about the splitting up of assets i know i would be if i was in that situation, im just glad they are going to do the decent thing at the end of the day and return her money as i hate to think a parent couldn't trust her own son at the end of a day

BigAunty

My rough calculations show that at best, the OPs mother could have her original 75k investment returned but perhaps only if the OP is prepared to take the hit on the expenses he paid while owning it and walk away without a penny (EDIT - dependency on the mortgage has not been paid down very much during ownership).

£75,000 - deposit from mum

£25,000 - mortgage taken out by son (originally 15,000 but then the freehold was purchased)

? - unknown mortgage payments for unknown period by OP, plus unknown solicitors fees for the eviction

£105,000 - my estimated sale price after estate agent/legal fees (OP says similar flats are on the market for 120k but I'll assume it's a buyers market and the actual sale price will be lower)
£5,000 - my estimated refurb cost (quite modest for a damaged flat, could be higher)

So perhaps the property will sell for 105,000 less 30,000 refurb and mortgage redemption=£75k - the original sum the mother paid in.

However, she's oblivious to the costs paid by her son, she's expecting him to miraculously grow her investment in a declining market and in a property damaged by her relative, she's also planning to continue to defraud the benefit system.

It's great that he's got the morals absent from his parents but if he does decide to keep the full 75k, there's probably little she could do, having no legal document to prove it was a loan and only at the risk of being prosecuted by the DWP if she makes a legal bid for it.

cuffey

Big aunty - we have done a similar exercise, and you are spot on.

They are cranking up the intimidation and turned up on our doorstep yesterday, I understand. We weren't at home thankfully - but it's a trick they are likely to repeat I expect.

Yorkie1

cuffey wrote: »

Big aunty - we have done a similar exercise, and you are spot on.

They are cranking up the intimidation and turned up on our doorstep yesterday, I understand. We weren't at home thankfully - but it's a trick they are likely to repeat I expect.

I would write to them stating that you do not wish to receive any more visits at home and that all contact must in future be to your solicitor (if that's how you've been corresponding up till now) or in writing to you (if you've not been going through your solicitor or you don't want that added cost).

Also add that any further visits will be treated as a) harassment and b) attempted intimidation of a party to court proceedings / doing acts tending to pervert the course of justice - and will be reported to the police accordingly.

[Sorry, have forgotten the main history - if there aren't court proceedings ongoing, omit b) above.]

In any event, the letter should put a warning shot across their bows.

Write to both, free certificate of posting from the GPO. (Not recorded delivery).

cuffey

Thanks Yorkie1. I'm inclined to carry on ignoring them as far as I can - I may need to get cross on here from time to time though!!

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

They are cranking up the intimidation and turned up on our doorstep yesterday, I understand. We weren't at home thankfully - but it's a trick they are likely to repeat I expect.

Well, yes, it's a lot of money to them and they were never going to let it slide. Guess as well as not answering the phone or responding to demands by mail, I think you are going to have to stop answering the door....

I suppose another alternative, (but only if you are definately going to proceed as it will be a form of evidence of your intention) is to get your solicitor to acknowledge that you will address the return of your mother's deposit to her directly once the sale of the property has completed following the refurbishment, less any necessary expenses such as legal fees (for the original purchase, the sale and eviction process for your dad), estate agent commission, repairs/refurb costs, mortgage payments,insurance, purchase of the freehold, locksmith for new lock due to lack of return of the key, etc, and so forth (or get your solictor to request that she has legal representation for this correspondance so there is another intermediary?)?

I'm not sure the latter is a great strategy as it makes you legally committed to a course of action and I'm not sure it will lessen the pressure from them on you as they expect £x sum in an instant, have no patience, can't see the bigger picture, see it from an emotional perspective not a business one.

RAS

cuffey

Just to check something before the family try to cause more problems.

Since dad has been paying "rent" - even if you make a loss each year, have you been making tax returns?

Or has he just paid the management fees?

cuffey

Reasonable question RAS - and the answer is no. When I posted originally it was because I was entirely unsure of his status as a tenant. There would be no tax due because I have not made a profit - but I understand I still should have declared the income. I will also need to investigate if there is any tax to pay when I sell it (capital gains?).

My tax code is in a bit of a muddle also - mainly because some correspondence had been sent to the flat and father opened it, didn't understand it (!) and didn't forward it for months. Long boring story, but I'm in the process of sorting that out as well (with the help of the GF of course).

Do I just ask the tax office's advice about previous years?

cuffey

Here I am a month on: frustrated but not defeated.

Applied for court order via solicitor under 'accelerated' procedure. In the meantime my dad writes to the court and claims he left at the end of May! So what, you might ask? He wrote to me at beginning of June saying he had not started to look for anywhere to live . . . . so we ignored and thought the court would just grant the possession order.

Oh no!! They have written to my solicitor and asked if we still want possession order because obviously he's already left. Except he hadn't at that date, and was still forwarding junk mail from the flat middle of July. Court refuses now to say how long it will be before the judge looks again at the file . . . . . 'in due course'.

Have had a council tax bill from end of May - but as he's not told me he's gone (the contrary) the council have agreed he's liable until the date of the possession order ... . and they will chase him for this.

My fear is that the Court will decide it doesn't warrant an order, and we will have held off going in to start sorting it out for several months thinking we have done the right thing and will have no way of avoiding paying the council tax etc.

Cross that the court have decided to write a letter when a possession order would have finished the process. Puts up my costs too as solicitor has had to respond in full with our reasons.

Is this common?

princeofpounds

Gosh, that's an annoying twist.

However, it does make me wonder, if the tenant has testified to a court that they have vacated the property, surely that has to count as a surrender of any tenancy. I would think it would be a pretty solid defence to illegal eviction, meaning you could simply go in and change the locks.

Unfortunately my law doesn't stretch that far though!