Missing paperwork in house purchase

sillymum

Hello everyone

I'd just like to see what you guys think about something that's been concerning me about our recent house purchase.

We moved house recently but after we had completed I realised that I had not received a copy of the forms I was expecting from the vendor regarding the boundaries, disputes with neighbours, building work etc (I thought this might be sent out with the deeds). I can't remember the name of the form but we completed two forms for our sale, one regarding fixtures and fittings (we received that from our vendors) and the other as described above.

When I emailed my solicitor who dealt with the purchase to ask about it, he would never reply. After several emails and phone calls, we then got a letter from the firm saying that they had not received that paperwork from the vendor. Do you think I am worrying unnecessarily about this missing form? What if there has been some kind of serious dispute that they should have declared, or a problem is uncovered regarding missing planning permission/building regs approval etc? Are these forms not a legal requirement???

Also, if it turns out that there is planning permission or building regs approval lacking, is it now my problem as current owner (probably!) or the person who owned the house at the time of the building work??

Any advice/opinions greatly received!

Thanks

Mrs_Optimist

I would be extremely worried in your position - how could your sol reasonably advise you if he didn't have the relevant paperwork from your (then) vendor concerning your purchase? This paperwork froms part of your Contract, which you signed. We are going through this process at the moment and our sol has gone through these forms received from our vendor with a fine toothcomb. It may be that you are not adversely affected with the lack of this paperwork but that would be luck rather than decent legal advice. I would not be happy with your sol at the moment - perhaps a formal written complaint asking for an explanation from your sol is in order?

lotto-dreamer

The form you are referring to is the Property Information Form (or Sale Questionnaire) completed by the seller. This form includes, as you say, information about the boundaries, any works/alterations done etc. (Solicitors should have a copy of this form on their file and you could ask for this to be sent to you - you could then check if alterations had been done which would have required relevant paperwork)

Your solicitor should have followed up with obtaining copies from seller's solicitors of any planning permissions, building regs etc if these were necessary. You would definitely need these when you came to sell the property and yes, the liability would pass to you when you purchased but your solicitor would have made sure (hopefully) that all was in order.

If you only completed your purchase a short while ago, the property may still be being registered in your name at the Land Registry. The solicitors should - when registration is completed - send you all the title deeds which should include the documents you are waiting for - together with the official copies showing your name as the registered proprietor.

You can also go onto the Land Registry site to check for yourself if the property has been registered in your name yet (£3 - to get Official Copies of the Register) if you think the solicitors may be sitting on this one.

If you have had confirmation that registration has been completed and you have not been sent anything else by your solicitors - you need to ask where they are. Planning permissions would be part of your title deeds.

lotto-dreamer

just another thought -

if your solicitors say they did not receive the paperwork from the vendor, that means either

(1) no planning permissions etc were required so there weren't any for the vendors to send, or

(2) if they were required, your solicitors would have (or certainly should have) asked for copies before you exchanged contracts and the copies would still be on their file - even if the vendor's solicitors did not send the originals to them when you completed.

Remember that some planning docs would not be necessary due to when works were done and not necessarily required. There is a helpful post here by Richard Webster (post #12)http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=4103381#post4103381

If you cannot get any sense out of the solicitors, ask them to send you a copy of the seller's Property Information form which should still be on their file (you should have received a copy) -that will give you a clue as to works done and the dates (if any) to put your mind at rest.

sillymum

Hello

I knew it wasn't right.

Thanks for your input. Lotto-dreamer, we have received the deeds now. There is a letter about planning permission for the garage but no reference at all to three other bits of building work that have been done sometime in the past. It is the Property Information Form (thanks for reminding me of its name!) that my solicitors never received apparently. Like you say, I don't know how they could have done their job properly without this. This is really worrying me.

Bossyboots

Now you have the name of the form, ring again and ask them to clarify that they are saying they don't have the form. If they still they haven't, ask why. You may need to escalate this to a complaint but you need to make sure that there aren't just crossed wires here by asking specifically for a copy of the form by name. Make sure you get the name of the person you speak to.

lotto-dreamer

The Seller's Property Information Form is part of the conveyancing protocol that most solicitors use. Solicitors base a lot of enquiries on that.

Your local search would also have shown up any planning permissions that had been applied for/refused etc. Sometimes if searches don't show anything but the Property Information states alterations were done, then they need to find out why in case they were done without the relevant permission.

Ask your solicitors to send you the following which they should have copies of on their file:

1) a copy of the Property Information Form

2) a copy of the Additional Enquiries they raised of the seller's solicitors

3) a copy of the Replies to the Additional Enquiries they received from the seller's solicitors

4) a copy of your Local Search - which will show up any planning permissions (with dates) which were applied for (but not necessarily done, or if done should have been followed up by your solicitor with requests for building regulations certificate and completion certificate if applicable).


Sorry, I am going on a bit here......! But, it sounds very strange for your solicitors to fob you off like that. it might just be crossed wires though.

You should have been sent a report on title with copies of all the above documents so you are quite entitled to them anyway.

sillymum

Hello

My husband's going to email the solicitor this morning. I want his reply in writing!!

Should they have sent us a copy of the additional enquiries and the replies? They certainly haven't, but is it only if you specifically request them that they are provided?

I've been trawling through the deeds this morning. Planning permission was given for an asbestos garage in 1959 (it has since been rebuilt in brick, but no idea when and no documentation about it, hope that's OK). Building Regs approval was applied for for the kitchen extension in 1982 but there is no record of its completion (do you think I should ask the council about it or am I opening up a nasty can of worms for myself?!!). A window/hatch is also in situ in the kitchen which I'm sure wasn't there when the house was built, again there is no reference to that. I might be worrying unnecessarily but I like to have all my i's dotted and t's crossed!

Will wait to see what the solicitor says but I reckon he's made a mistake and doesn't want to think about it.

Thanks for your help.

lotto-dreamer

I'm dashing off to work - but will get back to you later! (I work in conveyancing and will check up for you)

We always send our clients enquiries and replies!

JennyW_2

sillymum wrote:

Hello

Should they have sent us a copy of the additional enquiries and the replies?

yes you should've received a copy of these too. Before exchange you should've got paperwork relating to all 4 points lotto-dreamer mentioned.

These all form part of your agreement to exchange and complete.

If buildings regs was applied for then yes, there should be a completion certificate signing off the work as satisfactory - again this should've been copied to you (your local council should be able to assist you). However if the work wasnt completed to a satisfactory standard, then it would not have been issued There should also be paperwork for the additional window you believe there is in the kitchen.

Sounds like your solicitors have been negligent. They should never have exchanged without this information.

Richard_Webster

Don't ring the Council about previous work because you might end up with an inspector coming round - see my post referred to earlier in this thread! Usually these issues can be dealt with by insurance in the future when you sell. This isn't available if you talk to the Council about it.

As a conveyancing solicitor I agree you should have had copies of the Property Information Form or its equivalent. (Some solicitors don't use the standard form but produce their own, usually with more information.) In rare cases there is no such form available. Sometimes executors selling a property in a dead person's estate don't know about the property so won't complete the form, and the same applies if a lender is selling a repossessed property.

However, I do agree with previous posts that you should been given copies of what there was, and if there were no such documents then the reason why, and the significance of this should have been explained to you.

It is quite normal to raise extra enquiries about matters such as extensions and internal works. However, did the estate agents send your solicitor a copy of their particulars from which some of these things may have been apparent? If they didn't, or there were no agents, if I send my clients a copy of the Property Information Form and the seller says (as he often does) that there has been no building work carried out, I will often find my clients coming back to me with questions like "What about the conservatory then - is that building work?". Of course it is. (The usual reason is that the seller thinks the question refers to work he has had done rather than work done AT ANY TIME.) If there was no form supplied in the first place then you would have had no opportunity to raise this kind of point.

I think a solicitor is negligent if he doesn't get the form or its equivalent and fails to explain the significance of its absence to his client.

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.