building an extension - fixed price or hourly rate

linda_brew

the thinking goes along the lines of this. OH works from home 2 days a week plus has holidays. In fact his office is only 10 mins away. He has project management experience mostly in the delivery of IT systems. About 7 years ago he oversaw our loft conversion, however it was a fixed price bar a few fittings. Since then we have used a few tradesman plumber, electrician, painter and tiler for other jobs.

We want to manage the cost element closely and OH can labour to some extend also. In the past we have had fixed prices for work and looking back prices tended to be higher - OH thinks builders are rightfully being cautious on the cost of materials (but sometimes opting for inferior materials) plus adding 33% (profit) on top of daily rates.

We will get fixed prices also.

AdmiralX

wonka wrote: »

Don't pay hourly unless you have lots of experience in the construction industry.

Just get a few fixed price quotes instead.

I think it is correct

You may also phase the project that is : do a proportion see how you are happy, then proceed with the second phase.

keystone wrote: »

Daily rate is a licence to print money - forget it.

A quotation is at contractors risk albeit that they will quite rightly include a contractual clause concerning unforseen circumstances because there will be some and you will change your mind about the agreed specification/scope at times.

I think so. Some contractors who quote fixed price may use material which are not the most satisfactory. So you can also get a fixed price and say that you wil provide certain materials which you prefer. Important to read which materials have better performance. Take for instance electrical jobs, if you want a better socket you need to pay. But the quality of job will be the same.

linda_brew wrote: »

the thinking goes along the lines of this. OH works from home 2 days a week plus has holidays.

It could also be that your husband can plan and do the job better, I would not be surprised at all. Since Christmas I had an electrical point redone; the guy left a huge mess on the wall so and I called a plasterer who plastered over the wall paper of the messed wall: one disaster after another.

bobthedambuilder

Unless I've missed something, you didn't say whether or not you had construction drawings and a written scope and specification of work, materials etc.

If you haven't, how are you going to ensure that each builder has a precise idea of what he's pricing (i.e. like for like quotations), and how are you going to ensure that when your chosen builder does something you didn't expect, you can point to it and say "that's not what you contracted to do".

linda_brew

bobthedambuilder wrote: »

Unless I've missed something, you didn't say whether or not you had construction drawings and a written scope and specification of work, materials etc.

at present we have put together drawings (stpp), a spec of what we want and the scope of the work in stages. We havent yet specified the materials

vax2002

I would look at the option of employing an architect project manager, they cost around £400 a month and will ensure you get what you pay for.
They will :
Ensure all work is priced competitively
Ensure material mark ups are competitive
Ensure all work meets building regulations
Put in place an interim performance based payment structure to ensure the work gets completed to standard on time.
Only use Qualified builders
AND... Probably save you many many thousands of pounds by ensuring the job is done right first time !

bobthedambuilder

linda_brew wrote: »

at present we have put together drawings (stpp), a spec of what we want and the scope of the work in stages. We havent yet specified the materials

Good. What you can do in respect of materials is to specify either a minimum quality, or a specific manufacturer "or similar approved", and ensure that somewhere in the contract the builder must provide proposals/samples for your approval if he's not intending to use the specified manufacturer.

What you're really trying to do is to reduce the scope for misunderstandings and "extras" which you might not think are extras. The builders will be looking to minimise work and material costs to provide a competitive quotation.

You might also want to either specify or ask about time periods for the construction.

linda_brew

thanks bobthedambuilder. that was very helpful. can you give some example. For instance, when building an extension which materials would you definitely specify a minimum standard for i.e Wiring, wood, roofing? And can you give examples of the differences in quality from your experience? How technical would any specification need to be?

bobthedambuilder

Difficult to know exactly where to start. I assume that the stpp drawings and scope / Specification already cover all the details required to satisfy Building Regs, and describe the construction (foundations, walls, windows and doors, roof, any openings to the existing building, support beams etc.). All these obviously need to be precisely dimensioned.

Materials:
Walls - brickwork -what bricks?; blockwork/render? insulation? plastering to internal surfaces?; decoration?
Doors and windows - upvc/woodwork? double/triple glazed? opening lights? - have you a manufacturer in mind?
Roofing - if flat, what construction? If sloping - what tiles / slates?
Flooring - for anything other than a plain concrete floor, specify what you want, or tell the builder to allow for laying e.g tiles, and to include a Provisional Sum of £X for you to choose exactly what you want later within that budget (if you go over, you pay more)
Electrical - numbers and positions of all required ceiling and wall lights, and power points. For anything other than plain white fittings, specify exactly what you want . Where does the power come from? - allow for connecting/ certifying including any mods to the existing system.
Heating - positions and type of radiators. Where does the heat come from? - allow for any connections to the existing system. Does the boiler need an upgrade?
Plumbing etc e.g bathroom or kitchen - if possible provide a detailed layout. If you can't, back to the Provisional Sum route for fixtures and fittings. Once again, allow for any connections / mods to the existing system.

This is by no means an exhaustive list. It is possible to manage this yourself, but maybe you can see why some people have recommended employing an architect or construction project manager.

mavala25

vax2002 wrote: »

I would look at the option of employing an architect project manager, they cost around £400 a month and will ensure you get what you pay for.
They will :
Ensure all work is priced competitively
Ensure material mark ups are competitive
Ensure all work meets building regulations
Put in place an interim performance based payment structure to ensure the work gets completed to standard on time.
Only use Qualified builders
AND... Probably save you many many thousands of pounds by ensuring the job is done right first time !

Hi, im looking to get an extension done in future and what you've described above sounds great.

I have googled the term architect project manager and nothing comes up for services available, or companies available with this sort of service.

Where would I find such a person?
Would i just need to approach an architect company? Would it be an actual architect who would project manage for just £400 per month (I know its a ballpark figure)? This price/service seems beneath a lot of arhcitects I have come across.

linda_brew

bobthedambuilder wrote: »

Difficult to know exactly where to start. I assume that the stpp drawings and scope / Specification already cover all the details required to satisfy Building Regs, and describe the construction (foundations, walls, windows and doors, roof, any openings to the existing building, support beams etc.). All these obviously need to be precisely dimensioned.

Materials:
Walls - brickwork -what bricks?; blockwork/render? insulation? plastering to internal surfaces?; decoration?
Doors and windows - upvc/woodwork? double/triple glazed? opening lights? - have you a manufacturer in mind?
Roofing - if flat, what construction? If sloping - what tiles / slates?
Flooring - for anything other than a plain concrete floor, specify what you want, or tell the builder to allow for laying e.g tiles, and to include a Provisional Sum of £X for you to choose exactly what you want later within that budget (if you go over, you pay more)
Electrical - numbers and positions of all required ceiling and wall lights, and power points. For anything other than plain white fittings, specify exactly what you want . Where does the power come from? - allow for connecting/ certifying including any mods to the existing system.
Heating - positions and type of radiators. Where does the heat come from? - allow for any connections to the existing system. Does the boiler need an upgrade?
Plumbing etc e.g bathroom or kitchen - if possible provide a detailed layout. If you can't, back to the Provisional Sum route for fixtures and fittings. Once again, allow for any connections / mods to the existing system.

This is by no means an exhaustive list. It is possible to manage this yourself, but maybe you can see why some people have recommended employing an architect or construction project manager.

thanks thats helpful. so it would be more specification on some standards but also planning for the second fix. I was concerned it was technical specs on wood standards and tiles like water absorption.