Underpinning Guarantee

chouchoutan

Hi there.

We are quite a long way along in the process and have come across a potential hurdle.

The house we are buying had some underpinning work done in Summer 2000 to correct problems caused by a listed tree on the adjoining property. We have been trying to get hold of a copy of the guarantee for this work but have now found out that the contractor who did the work has gone out of business.

Does anyone have any advice? The whole process has been so protracted with various parties withdrawing at stages along the way (except us and our vendors) that we are desperate to move and are considering just taking the risk at this point.

Aer there any civil\structural engineers out there who can advise?

WaveyDave_2

Having started down a similar route not so long ago (which we pulled out of eventually!). There are a few things you need to find out/consider.

When the house was underpinned, was it commissioned by the insurer? If not, with no guarantee, you may struggle to get buildings insurance/a mortgage. If the insurer covered the work, then they will probably have the original structural engineer's report etc, and they will usually be happy to continue the insurance in your name. The downside being they *could* pretty much charge what they want. Of course, if they still have the report etc, you may find that the engineer that did the assessment will have signed off the work as satisfactory! Its a very difficult situation.

You could commission your own structural report, with specific emphasis on the underpinning. I'd say that it will likely involve destructive work to some extent, in order to reveal the foundations and the level of underpinning. Who would bare the cost?

When I was asking these questions on here, I received several responses of walk away, which we did in the end, with a cost of approx 1k. Have you really considered the potential problems of an underpinned house? Upon reflection, I'm glad I walked away, even though my wife and I both loved the house. We've now found one just up the road, which is much nicer! I always thought it was a bit of a cliche, but there is always another house!

Cheers

Dave

chouchoutan

Thanks Dave.

I've just chacked with hubby and some of my details are incorrect - sorry! The letter detailing the works that had been done which was provided by our vendors (and was provided to them by the previous owners when they purchased) is the report from the Structural Engineer. It does not mention which contractor undertook the works and it is the Structual Engineering Company which is no longer trading. The house has changed hands twice since then with no problems.

Hubby has tracked down the people who had the underpinning done in the first place (development company who did lots of work to modernise house) to see if they can dig out any records on who did the work.

How long would you expect a guarantee for work like this to be valid - 10 years?

WaveyDave_2

chouchoutan wrote:

Thanks Dave.

I've just chacked with hubby and some of my details are incorrect - sorry! The letter detailing the works that had been done which was provided by our vendors (and was provided to them by the previous owners when they purchased) is the report from the Structural Engineer. It does not mention which contractor undertook the works and it is the Structual Engineering Company which is no longer trading. The house has changed hands twice since then with no problems.

Hubby has tracked down the people who had the underpinning done in the first place (development company who did lots of work to modernise house) to see if they can dig out any records on who did the work.

How long would you expect a guarantee for work like this to be valid - 10 years?

So if I've got this right, the development company did the underpinning themselves, without the buildings insurer? I don't think the guarantee is necessarily something you need to be concerned about really. As long as you can insure the house, with a standard policy, you should be ok - if the problem reappears, your buildings insurance will cover it. Might be worth paying a structural engineer anyway, if only to look at the original report and give you some idea of the extent of underpinning etc. We paid £400 for an engineer to look into the problem and prepare a report for us.

Is your solicitor happy with the underpinning issue?

Good luck!

Dave

chouchoutan

WaveyDave wrote:

So if I've got this right, the development company did the underpinning themselves, without the buildings insurer? I don't think the guarantee is necessarily something you need to be concerned about really. As long as you can insure the house, with a standard policy, you should be ok - if the problem reappears, your buildings insurance will cover it. Might be worth paying a structural engineer anyway, if only to look at the original report and give you some idea of the extent of underpinning etc. We paid £400 for an engineer to look into the problem and prepare a report for us.

Is your solicitor happy with the underpinning issue?

Good luck!

Dave

Yep - no insurers involved as far as we are aware. Our vendors say their solicitor never brought this up and in fairness neither did ours - it was us who asked about the guarantee. So I'm hoping we wouldn't even need to mention the underpinning to our insurance company.

Thanks again!

WaveyDave_2

I'm pretty sure you should mention this to your insurance company, they will ask if the property has any history of subsidence or heave.

I wonder if the current owners have neglected to inform their insurer? If so, you could be in a difficult position, as their insurance could be void. This means they wouldn't transfer the insurance to you. Apparently the Halifax are very good with underpinned properties, we also found Tesco quite understanding. I'd sound a few of them out first without giving to many specifics. Say you're considering buying a property and its been underpinned etc.

Dave

chouchoutan

WaveyDave wrote:

I'm pretty sure you should mention this to your insurance company, they will ask if the property has any history of subsidence or heave.

Dave

So I've had a quick look online at LloydsTSB and their quote generator asks the question:

Is the home to be insured and local area, showing any signs of subsidence, landslip or ground heave (including repaired damage) and/or in an area liable to flooding, landslip or subsidence? (Notes: signs of subsidence damage are often shown by cracking or bulging walls).

I think we can quite legitimately answer that question with a no as the property does not show any signs of these things. The only reason we know that the underpinning was done 7 years ago is that the vendor had to dfisclose any building works they were aware of on the property. Anyone disagree?

Richard_Webster

When you apply for insurance you have to tell the insurance company everything you know - it is no good being economical with the truth or applying legalistic interpretations to the questions. If you there has been underpinning you have to tell them, otherwise they may refuse to pay out later if you make a claim.

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

MJMum

including repaired damage

There's your problem. You know there have been repairs.

chouchoutan

OK, so the feedback I'm getting is that although we might choose to interpret that as there is no sign of repaired damage (as the work was done 7 years ago and there are no visible signs of any repair work) we shouldn't do so and should be up front with potential insurers.

Anyone got experience of this with insurers apart from the Halifax and Tesco. We are currently with LloydsTSB who have always been very reasonable also. I think I might give them a call tomorrow and see what they have to say.

Many thanks.

sleepymans

Its likely that your insurers will happily insure the house ----but exclude future claims for subsidence, settlement, heave or slip.
And there you go - its your risk if it ever recurs.
Only you can decide if its worth that risk to you.