Greece...

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Who are the humans you are so concerned about?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/11/greece-humanitarian-crisis-eu

Have a read.

That's not to mention the 250% increase in households with no access to electricity since 2009. The 27% unemployment. The near 50% youth unemployment. The suicides. The number of homeless people in an EU country rising to unprecedented numbers.

Make light of it should you wish. But you asked me why I was basically even bothered as it doesn't effect me. It might not, but compassion is free. So is researching the reasons for their difficulties. The EU is not totally to blame, and i've never suggested they are - but they are certainly not blameless and are certainly making things harder for those unfortunate in Greece to pave the way to "save" the EU project. Increasing the Greeks debt simply extends this pain over a longer time period.

My point was never regarding what effects me, or what effects us in the UK. It was about how others, in another country are suffering, whether I physcially share their pain or not.

Cyberman60

chucknorris wrote: »

So there economy was doing fine otherwise was it? I think not! It isn't about Greece, they are stuffed, its about everyone else (i.e. will they drag anyone else down with them).

Look, the Euro is a political experiment that is failing and that was predicted by me in 1999 when a German boss of mine was incredulous that I was against the Euro. Another English colleague called me a little Englander at the time.
Oh I'd love to meet them again... :rotfl:

The states either become one country and make it work or leave. My view is that Greece will leave sooner or later, so it may as well be soon.

Cyberman60

antrobus wrote: »

It is true that Greece has an issue with the size of its shadow economy and the resulting evasion of taxes; its shadow economy is 24% of GDP, compared to our figure of 10%.

On the other hand, it's 24% in Poland as well, 26% in Latvia, 28% in Romania, Lithunia, Estonia, and 31% in Bulgaria. What's worth noting about these countries, is whilst all of them have a 'tax evasion' problem that's at least as big as Greece, if not bigger, all of them appear to be quite solvent. Like Bulgaria for example, where government debt is apparently 17.3% of GDP. Or Estonia, where it's 10%, and the even manage to cope with the Euro as well.

http://www.atkearney.com/documents/10192/1743816/The+Shadow+Economy+in+Europe+2013.pdf

Those figures are very interesting and serve as even more proof that the EU and the Euro are built on sand. :eek:

Cyberman60

Graham_Devon wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/11/greece-humanitarian-crisis-eu

Have a read.

That's not to mention the 250% increase in households with no access to electricity since 2009. The 27% unemployment. The near 50% youth unemployment. The suicides. The number of homeless people in an EU country rising to unprecedented numbers.

Make light of it should you wish. But you asked me why I was basically even bothered as it doesn't effect me. It might not, but compassion is free. So is researching the reasons for their difficulties. The EU is not totally to blame, and i've never suggested they are - but they are certainly not blameless and are certainly making things harder for those unfortunate in Greece to pave the way to "save" the EU project. Increasing the Greeks debt simply extends this pain over a longer time period.

My point was never regarding what effects me, or what effects us in the UK. It was about how others, in another country are suffering, whether I physcially share their pain or not.

It's not just the EU politicians to blame but also Greek politicians, for a failed political experiment, which they were warned about, and sadly it's always the people that pay the price.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/11/greece-humanitarian-crisis-eu

Have a read.

That's not to mention the 250% increase in households with no access to electricity since 2009. The 27% unemployment. The near 50% youth unemployment. The suicides. The number of homeless people in an EU country rising to unprecedented numbers.

Make light of it should you wish. But you asked me why I was basically even bothered as it doesn't effect me. It might not, but compassion is free. So is researching the reasons for their difficulties. The EU is not totally to blame, and i've never suggested they are - but they are certainly not blameless and are certainly making things harder for those unfortunate in Greece to pave the way to "save" the EU project. Increasing the Greeks debt simply extends this pain over a longer time period.

My point was never regarding what effects me, or what effects us in the UK. It was about how others, in another country are suffering, whether I physcially share their pain or not.

You're a lovely person but your compassionate nature is blinding you to the fact that the Greeks voted for a government that intends to increase debt as far as possible and then default. They'll then get an IMF loan which won't be repaid either.

chucknorris

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I didn't realise that our economic and financial problems had been fixed. Must have missed the news tonight.

The ECB wouldn't be pumping QE in to the system if deflation wasn't a concern.

What I did pick up from the news today.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/deflation-threat-grows-in-europe-1424772001

You didn't miss the news, it's just that you didn't read my post before you blundered in and posted. They are not fixed, I said 'in recovery' (not recovered) it is an on going process, with some way to go.

chucknorris

Cyberman60 wrote: »

Look, the Euro is a political experiment that is failing and that was predicted by me in 1999 when a German boss of mine was incredulous that I was against the Euro. Another English colleague called me a little Englander at the time.
Oh I'd love to meet them again... :rotfl:

The states either become one country and make it work or leave. My view is that Greece will leave sooner or later, so it may as well be soon.

I don't disagree, but Greece wasn't in a good place before the recent austerity measures, it might have got worse (or not) but it wasn't doing well before then. That was my point.

I'd love to meet all my ex colleagues that said I was mad for buying 3 investment properties plus my home in London in the early 90's (I bought 2 more in the late 90's too). Our rental income is now probably about twice what they earn (and they are chartered surveyors, like myself).

purch

Cyberman60 wrote: »

They've only kicked the can down the road. They have four months !!

They didn't even manage it give it a big kick :eek:

antrobus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I didn't realise that our economic and financial problems had been fixed. Must have missed the news tonight. ....

The statement that the "European economies (incl. us) are in recovery" does not imply that all economic and financial problems have been fixed. In my experience, there are always economic and financial problems that need fixing.

purch wrote: »

They didn't even manage it give it a big kick :eek:

They give it a bigger kick than last time.

Back at the beginning of December, it was only a two month extension.

vivatifosi

What I don't understand is why you don't see more young Greeks here looking for work. Working in a public library you meet immigrants on a daily basis... they use free WiFi or computer time to stay in touch with people at home and borrow language courses to improve their English.

I meet loads of eastern Europeans, as well as a fair number of Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italians. No Greeks yet. I wonder where they go in search for work. Genuinely interested if anyone knows the answer. With an economy that desperate a diaspora must be heading off somewhere.