Greece...

Degenerate

N1AK wrote: »

Also nobody (feel free to point them out if I missed it) was talking about such a complete collapse of support for the main parties much before it actually happened.

I was, back in February, further up this thread:

Degenerate wrote: »

The upcoming elections are likely to result in decimation of the the mainstream parties and surges in support for the far left and right. There will be no clear mandate for any party, and the differing factions will be to ideologically disparate to work together, leaving no-one effectively at the helm right at the moment when strong leadership is most needed.

My point here is not to brag about my own foresight, but to point out that this was not that hard to forsee. I've never been to Greece and I'm not psychic, I was only drawing conclusions from filtering through the press coverage and reading between the lines. If I could predict this situation, how the hell could Eurozone leaders overlook it? They're utterly incompetent.

davidfree007

The problem is that no one really knows the true picture. Did you see that TV program the other night. Greece, and probably a lot of the other countries have been juggling the figures for a long time. People raised the alarm but a lot of the big leaders turned a blind eye cos they didnt want to believe it was all coming apart.

I see the Euro as like a lottery syndicate at work. Imagine we all put our pound in every week, but there is 1 Greek guy who keeps turning up without his wallet and saying next week, next week. So we club together and we put £1 in for him. What we dont know is that he is taking his pound and spending it down the pub, and in fact borrowing more money from us to spend even more.

The problem we have is that the euro has allow countries to not tighten their belts. Rather than implement changes they have simply kept borrowing money.

The only reason Germany has money now is that it saw the writing on the wall and implemented austerity changes years before anyone else did. They took the measures they needed to before the bubble burst.

Now they are being asked to bailed out the countries who thought the party would go on for ever. Seems like madness to me.

Doesnt this smack of 'too big the fail' scenario that we had with the banks?

Graham_Devon

What do people make of this? Greece are made out to be lazy etc, but they apparently work 2,017 hours a year on average, whereas we work 1,617 on average in the UK?

Sampong

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What do people make of this? Greece are made out to be lazy etc, but they apparently work 2,017 hours a year on average, whereas we work 1,617 on average in the UK?

Is their year longer than ours maybe?

The_J

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What do people make of this? Greece are made out to be lazy etc, but they apparently work 2,017 hours a year on average, whereas we work 1,617 on average in the UK?

If you count having a siesta, striking and getting a pension as "hours of work", of course they will be higher.

CLAPTON

the problem with the euro is that it is institutionally corrupt

the EU is corrupt from top to bottom
the auditors have refused to sign off the a/cs for years and years
each of the countries cheat for their own benefit in one way or another
roads and railways are built with 'free' EU money that have no cars and no passengers

all the banks including Germany are full of toxic debts which they won't come clean on
the formation of the EURO was a fraud by all the countries of euroland including Germany; Ok greece was even worse than the others but they all colluded in the fraud

so there is no point in blaming individual Greeks; they just lived in the environment of the times.

remember that most of the CBI, FSA, bankers etc in the UK all thought we ought to have joined

so the issue is how to break up something that shouldn't have been made in the first place for the benefit of all

the sooner it breaks up the better for all especially the millions and millions of unemployed people

homelessskilledworker

One of the biggest issues in my opinion(and many others) is the LACK of moral hazard in recent years, probably more so post 2007 with the financial crisis and the Euro debacle.

Last night while watching newsnight(or was in channel 4) I listened to one of Greece's main party leaders who gave one of the worst example yet.
Basically he was saying if we do not allow Greece to stay in the Euro as well being let off their huge debts that they would take the whole of the Europe with them, I might add he had a smile on his face when he said it.

It has been sickening watching so many people just walk away from huge debts and failed institutions over the last five years without hardly a scratch, the true prudent being then left to pick up the pieces.

So many of the blackmailers will of course be back at a later date when they yet again find life a little difficult with their begging bowl.

I really hope now that Germany gives Greece the two fingers, for once the Germans are not the bad guys here. It will be painful if Greece are booted out of the Euro for all of us, but we need the clean slate and some personal responsibility.

pqrdef

homelessskilledworker wrote: »

Basically he was saying if we do not allow Greece to stay in the Euro as well being let off their huge debts that they would take the whole of the Europe with them

Well it's no more than the truth. And the Greeks don't have to do anything, they can just sit back and watch Europe tear its own heart out on the altar of moral hazard.

But the paradox is, this is indeed an example of moral hazard at work. Because the Germans invented a whole new game, a new contract with new terms. And everybody else played the new game, and then the Germans refused to keep their side of the bargain.

worldtraveller

Latest Bloomberg Businessweek:


Telegraph.co.uk

chucky

davidfree007 wrote: »

The problem is that no one really knows the true picture.

Really?? There are a hell of a lot of armchair economists on this forum who know a lot about very little that qualifies them to know the true picture of Greece.