Greece...

danothy

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Or you could blame the EU for removing access to the deal.

The date that the deal expired was known well before the referendum date was set. To try to blame the EU for the deal expiring is like trying to blame the eggs for going past their date when you want to make an omelette in six months time.

Graham_Devon

In other news, the ECB has just started buying state backed company debt through QE.

Graham_Devon

danothy wrote: »

The date that the deal expired was known well before the referendum date was set. To try to blame the EU for the deal expiring is like trying to blame the eggs for going past their date when you want to make an omelette in six months time.

I'm not blaming the EU for the deal expiring.

I'm suggesting that if the deal was good enough last week, why deny to look at the same deal now?

Other than the date, what's changed?

The deal was still on the table when the referendum was announced. It was on the table the day after too. No one at that point suggested a new deal would have to be drawn up. It was ONLY after Tspiras suggested the Greeks should vote no that Germany decided they would have to draw up a completely new deal based on the referendum result.

The ONLY reason to start drawing up a new deal (which presumably will encompass all the same stuff) is to provide a delay and more carnage for the Greek people.

Even Hollande has as much as stated this.

They have the framework. They had accepted the framework. The Greek government have all but accepted the framework. Hollande has stated a deal on this framework could be done within hours.

Germany however, state they need to go right back to the drawing board and start a completely new deal. Why? I know the reason, many others know the reason.

Can you give me a valid reason which changes my stance? If not, were just into a confirmation bias scenario.

wotsthat

Generali wrote: »

I've been pondering the same thing and the best I can come up with is that everyone else leaves the Euro and starts up a new currency without Greece. It's hard to see what they could do about that.

Greece may wish to stay in the Euro but at some point it may just become impractical for them and they'll be deciding to leave rather than expelled.

It could be negotiated in exchange for humanitarian aid.

danothy

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm not blaming the EU for the deal expiring.

I never said you did, I contradicted your assertion that the EU could be blamed for 'removing access to the deal'. Is this just another example of you hearing what you want to hear rather than what was actually said?

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm suggesting that if the deal was good enough last week, why deny to look at the same deal now?

Other than the date, what's changed?

The deal was to extend the existing deal, you can't extend something after it has finished, you could however start something new on the same terms ... but that assumes that the deal was good enough last week. It wasn't for Greece, as it turns out, they didn't accept it. Saying you would now accept it is not the same as accepting it. You do just seem to hear what you want to hear though.

Graham_Devon

Nah, sorry, I'll carry on "listening to what I want to hear".

My opinion is different to yours on this.

The fight between Germany and the Greek government is all this is about. To assume that the EU has to stick precisely to dates is a bit too naive for me. Afterall, how many times have they fudged stuff through past deadlines in the past?

You may wish to refer to 2012 when the Greek banks faced the same issues.

The difference then was that the leader of the country ticked the right German boxes. So what happened? Planes were sent in chocked full of Euro cash notes in order that the country could continue and people were "happy" while this same sort of scenario played out.

danothy

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Nah, sorry, I'll carry on "listening to what I want to hear".

As expected. Who are you quoting there exactly, by the way? If it's me, then I feel compelled to inform you that you have misquoted me.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

My opinion is different to yours on this.

I don't think you know what my opinion on 'this' is ...

Graham_Devon wrote: »

how many times have they fudged stuff through past deadlines in the past?

Do you know the answer to that question, or are you just assuming it's "a lot"?

Graham_Devon

danothy wrote: »

As expected.

Well "Something can't be extended after it's finished" was hardly inspiring enough to override everything going on politically between Greece and Germany.

Graham_Devon

Interestingly, a "very well financed" advertisement package is apparently dominating all the TV channels in Greece persuading people to vote yes.

The funding comes from pro-EU establishments. However, one of the establishments handing over cash to run the adverts is the Greek Orthodox Church.

They also seem to be advising their "followers" to vote yes.

The problem for the "no" campaign is that the private TV providers don't apparently run their ad's, only the Yes ad's.

The division now is not just among Europe, it's amongst Greece AND religion.

Looking forward to our referendum if this is a sign of anything to come

mwpt

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Germany however, state they need to go right back to the drawing board and start a completely new deal. Why? I know the reason, many others know the reason.

Can you give me a valid reason which changes my stance? If not, were just into a confirmation bias scenario.

In any negotiation, an offer is always stipulated with a time period attached. It isn't reasonable to expect that offer to be valid once that period ends. It is also unreasonable to assign a grandiose malevolent motive to this action, when the simplest explanation is best. The offer expired. That's it.