Greece...

antrobus

cepheus wrote: »

I doubt if Greece will be bullied by the Banksters and Eurocrats....

The Eurogroup are neither Banksters nor Eurocrats, they consist of the finance ministers of the Eurozone nations. Some of them, such as Jeroen Dijsselbloem, might even describe themselves as 'socialists'.

cepheus wrote: »

... It will be difficult to legally boot them out of the Eurozone....

Not really. The Vienna Convention applies.

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The greek government will have no choice but to accept everything on the table, or face watching Greece simply fall apart.

You are overlooking the fact that it's the people voting. This is a decisive vote and really comes down to individual personal circumstances. Social unrest appears to be guaranteed what ever the outcome.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If they vote yes, the EU will be negotiating with a new government (exactly what they want).

If they vote no, they will be back at the negotiating table negotiating new terms. The key to this is, while this is happening, the country will basically be completely insolvent and getting worse by the hour. Banks will likely have shut down completely and people left to fend for themselves. The greek government will have no choice but to accept everything on the table, or face watching Greece simply fall apart.

So yes or no there will be negotiations next week?

If a referendum hadn't been called they could be negotiating today. Tsipras could've had what he now wants weeks ago - you could hardly fit a 5 € note in the gap between the two sides.

mayonnaise

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Makes the referendum utterly pointless though

Yes, this was explained to you by danothy 3 days ago.

danothy wrote: »

No, what you have here is a referendum on accepting a proposal that will have expired before the vote takes place.

cepheus

“I suspect the Greek financial crisis makes Roy feel less insignificant, because the only thing he’s ever achieved in his pitiful little life is being a tightfisted !!!!!!!.
“Also he reads the Daily Express and I think he just likes the idea of people being punished

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/pompous-!!!!-taking-tough-stance-on-greece-2015070299796

Reminds me of a forum, oh hang on....................

TheBlueHorse

can someone cleverer than me explain the referendum in Greece. I thought there was a question about whether or not they should accept the deal BUT I also understand the deal is off the table now. So can they accept it or not????

princeofpounds

I doubt if Greece will be bullied by the Banksters and Eurocrats. It will be difficult to legally boot them out of the Eurozone.

Yes, there is no mechanism.


However, if Greece has no Euros left, and the banking system is entirely insolvent with out ECB support and so also has no euros left, then Greece cannot pay anyone, even their own wages and pensions.


They will have to issue IOU notes. These notes will be, in all but name, Drachmas. They will trade at a huge discount, effectively a devaluation. And the name will probably be formally applied very quickly.


The Greek people will have their remaining deposits converted in Drachma, devalued, and probably bailed into the banks as well. There won't be much left after that.


And all the while, no-one will have actually kicked Greece out of the Eurozone. Greece will eventually ask to leave when it defacto runs another currency anyway, as there will no longer be any downside to doing so and regaining full power over monetary and regulatory policy.


One hell of a cost to get there however!


It's a path that would have made sense at the beginning of the crisis.


But it's a path of lunacy after 5 years of painful sacrifice on the Greek budget and wages AND generous cuts in the rate of debt by the creditors meant that Greece had finally got to a position where its debt was sustainable and the economy had returned to growth.


A destructive path was no longer necessary.


This means that the decline in public spending and welfare we will see as a result of Syriza's economic and negotiation strategy will actually now be far greater than any restrictions the creditors were pursuing.


That's the irony of it all - the biggest champions of austerity, if you define it more widely as the impoverishment of the Greek people, have been Syriza.

Generali

cepheus wrote: »

I doubt if Greece will be bullied by the Banksters and Eurocrats. It will be difficult to legally boot them out of the Eurozone.



https://theconversation.com/can-greece-bring-in-the-lawyers-to-avoid-getting-booted-out-of-the-eurozone-44108

I've been pondering the same thing and the best I can come up with is that everyone else leaves the Euro and starts up a new currency without Greece. It's hard to see what they could do about that.

Graham_Devon

TheBlueHorse wrote: »

can someone cleverer than me explain the referendum in Greece. I thought there was a question about whether or not they should accept the deal BUT I also understand the deal is off the table now. So can they accept it or not????

It was.

Since the referendum was given the go ahead, the deal has now been removed.

So you could blame the greeks for giving the referendum. Or you could blame the EU for removing access to the deal when really there was no real need to.

It's all politics now, and more and more are seeing it. It's no longer about the money.

Good piece in the Guardian today looking at what this is all REALLY about.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/01/syriza-cave-in-elites-regime-change

To be fair, both Draghi and Hollande have spoken out against Germany and the way this is going.

As this has turned into a game now, it's just a case of picking who you wish to "blame". There is fault on both sides.

danothy

Generali wrote: »

I've been pondering the same thing and the best I can come up with is that everyone else leaves the Euro and starts up a new currency without Greece. It's hard to see what they could do about that.

Greece keeps the ball, everyone else takes the pitch home? Seems achievable in a weird sort of way.