Car boot sale - cakes?

looby75

lovinituk wrote: »

That only refers to the health and safety side of things. Income tax is not dependent on which council you have - if making and selling for profit then its income that needs to be declared.

For all I know she does declare it, she only does a craft fair once a month, it's more of a hobby for her as she works full time. I don't really know anything about the financial side of things all I know is that it was that she mentioned she had spoken to someone at the council about her selling her cakes every now and again and they told her that as she only sold them every now and again (I think she's sold them about 4 times in 2 years, usually when she's had a couple of days off work had had time to bake) that she didn't need any licences.

lovinituk

looby75 wrote: »

For all I know she does declare it, she only does a craft fair once a month, it's more of a hobby for her as she works full time. I don't really know anything about the financial side of things all I know is that it was that she mentioned she had spoken to someone at the council about her selling her cakes every now and again and they told her that as she only sold them every now and again (I think she's sold them about 4 times in 2 years, usually when she's had a couple of days off work had had time to bake) that she didn't need any licences.

Its probably correct that she doesn't need any licences, but then you don't need any licences to register as self employed either! I appreciate you don't know your friends financial situation, but I was responding to your response to McKneffs post which was talking about being a business and therefore declaring earnings for tax purposes.

The fact that she works full time probably means she already uses up her personal tax allowance so she should be paying tax on all the profits made from the craft fairs/car boots.

Sadly most people who do this sort of thing 'as a hobby' or 'on the side' either don't know they should be declaring earnings, or do know but don't bother and therefore are evading tax. Ebay for one is riddled with people like that unfortunately!

Splashy

Some car boots do not permit the sale of food stuff, so whatever official things you have you might not be able to do it anyway

mildred1978

looby75 wrote: »

For all I know she does declare it, she only does a craft fair once a month, it's more of a hobby for her as she works full time. I don't really know anything about the financial side of things all I know is that it was that she mentioned she had spoken to someone at the council about her selling her cakes every now and again and they told her that as she only sold them every now and again (I think she's sold them about 4 times in 2 years, usually when she's had a couple of days off work had had time to bake) that she didn't need any licences.

So hoodies she protect herself against being sued for causing food poisoning or whatever? If she's unlicensed how do people know that what they are buying is safe? She could have a kitchen full of cockroaches or seriously dirty cooking practices.

looby75

mildred1978 wrote: »

So hoodies she protect herself against being sued for causing food poisoning or whatever? If she's unlicensed how do people know that what they are buying is safe? She could have a kitchen full of cockroaches or seriously dirty cooking practices.

I suppose thats the risk a buyer takes when buying homemade cakes at carboot sales/craft fairs I suppose.

As I said she doesn't do it very often and has checked with the council to see if she needed any kind of licence or permission, they said no as it's not a regular thing.

She's never had any problems, in fact the exact opposite someone who bought cakes from her the first time she sold them keeps asking her to make them more regularly, she just doesn't have the time though.

lynzpower

looby75 wrote: »

I suppose thats the risk a buyer takes when buying homemade cakes at carboot sales/craft fairs I suppose.

As I said she doesn't do it very often and has checked with the council to see if she needed any kind of licence or permission, they said no as it's not a regular thing.

Given the fact that incorrect labelling can land someone in hospital or even kill them: this is not the 'risk someone, its not the 'risk people take'

The labelling regulations not only apply here but across the whole of the EU. hey are there to protect peoples health and to work in breach of them is putting people at risk for the sake of making a few quid seems selfish in the extreme!

The law is crystal clear http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/16/section/2

Extended meaning of “sale” etc.

(1)For the purposes of this Act—
(a)the supply of food, otherwise than on sale, in the course of a business; and
(b)any other thing which is done with respect to food and is specified in an order made by [F1the Secretary of State],shall be deemed to be a sale of the food, and references to purchasers and purchasing shall be construed accordingly.
(2)This Act shall apply—
(a)in relation to any food which is offered as a prize or reward or given away in connection with any entertainment to which the public are admitted, whether on payment of money or not, as if the food were, or had been, exposed for sale by each person concerned in the organisation of the entertainment;
(b)in relation to any food which, for the purpose of advertisement or in furtherance of any trade or business, is offered as a prize or reward or given away, as if the food were, or had been, exposed for sale by the person offering or giving away the food; and
(c)in relation to any food which is exposed or deposited in any premises for the purpose of being so offered or given away as mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) above, as if the food were, or had been, exposed for sale by the occupier of the premises;and in this subsection “entertainment” includes any social gathering, amusement, exhibition, performance, game, sport or trial of skill.

and

Labelling rules in European Directives 2003/89/EC and 2006/142/EC ensure that all consumers are given comprehensive ingredient listing information and make it easier for people with food allergies to identify ingredients they need to avoid.

The rules for pre-packed foods establish a list of 14 food allergens, which have to be indicated by reference to the source allergen whenever they, or ingredients made from them, are used at any level in pre-packed foods, including alcoholic drinks. The list consists of cereals containing gluten, crustaceans, molluscs, eggs, fish, peanuts, nuts, soybeans, milk, celery, mustard, sesame, lupin and sulphur dioxide at levels above 10mg/kg, or 10 mg/litre, expressed as SO2.

The rules removed the '25% rule' in the previous legislation, which meant that individual ingredients making up a compound ingredient did not have to be listed if the compound ingredient made up less than 25% of the finished product. So, apart from a few exceptions, all ingredients now have to be indicated on the label, even when they make up only a small proportion of the product.

Some ingredients derived from the listed allergenic foods are so highly processed that they are no longer capable of triggering an adverse reaction. A list of products that were temporarily exempt from the labelling requirements of 2003/89/EC was published in Commission Directive 2005/26/EC and a list of permanent exemptions was published in Directive 2007/68/EC in November 2007. Links to the directives can be found at the bottom of the page.

For more information, see the guidance on the food allergen labelling legislation at the bottom of this page

http://www.food.gov.uk/safereating/allergyintol/label/

Plenty of info on the food standards agency as to what the law says.
Including this about labelling http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/allergenlabelguidance09.pdf

looby75

we are talking about someone selling the odd homemade cake at a local craft fair, surely anyone who has an allergy isn't going to buy a cake from somewhere like that.

And then theres all those cakes that are made and sold for charity, dd and ds schools often have such sales and ask parents to make cakes at home and send them in. We are never asked to list ingredients etc.

tiff

The world has gone mad, anyone with food allergies wont be buying from car boot sales. Its time to let up on looby75 since she is not the one making the cakes anyway!

lynzpower

I take your point Tiff, but the responsibility for complying with the law lies with the producer or the business themselves.

As the OP says, this is going to be her 'first' car boot sale, implying that there are likely to be more in the offing.

If the OP gets it right they can make a lot of money out of cakes.

In any case, many car boot sales strictly prohibit the sale of foods for this reason. Certainly the ones I have done have: including the inspection of the stall by organisers along with the questions at the gate before you even go in.

Theres no point in Op wasting time effort and ingredients without knowing in advance.

Again, the OP needs to speak to the local EHO and the car boot organisers to get a full picture.

I know most schools dont allow cakes in any more.

That said As a training EHO I have been involved with organisers to help them understand how to undertake basic labelling that complies with the law.
Its not difficult: after all the OP wil know exactly what goes into the cakes, and printing out some sticky labels is hardly rocket science

Haffiana

Please also be aware that in addition to the labelling and hygiene compliance regulations - which apply *equally* to someone selling one cake just once as to someone with a cake factory - you should also have insurance to protect yourself if someone eating your cake becomes sick or cuts their throat from the bit of glass that fell in when you weren't looking, and decides to sue you. Yes, it is ridiculous etc etc, but it can happen. You will find that most Farmers Markets and craft fairs require you to prove your insurance before they will let you sell.

If you want to know about the regulations and what you need to do in order to comply, then speak to your local Trading Standards, NOT the council. The council are not charged with ensuring compliance, and in most cases do not know the law, and are not legally obliged to ensure that the advice they give you is correct. And as on an internet forum, their opinion has no bearing in law.