what happens if we can't find the extra 8 hours??

Vejovis

BigAunty wrote: »

Definately very tricky to get work - hardest it's been for years and very difficult to juggle two part time jobs without conflicts.

However, I am optimistic that the majority of those receiving WTC as couples for 16 hours will increase their hours to 24, motivated by the potential loss of it, even if they have to be entreprenurial and set up a micro business via self employment, such as a cleaning round, dog walking, avon round and so on.

For example, my sisters company struggles to find staff to work overtime at peak periods or transfer from part time to full time employment if they receive tax credits (they won't work a minute over 16 hours) so I expect she'll welcome staff approaching her for extra hours for a change.

something that is echoed around the country. where i work there are two of us who are available to do extra hours (due to the way the rotas are worked out). despite the other person having been there 3 years longer, they ask me first, because i prefer to work longer hours and don't care if it knocks down my wtc, i'd rather be self sufficient. the other worker doesn't want to do over 16 hours because it'll affect her benefits

bubbleoflife_2

Can someone elucidate, please, on working out the hours of work in self-employment because I'm really confused on this one and the nature of my work doesn't make it very easy to work it all out. I gave up a few years ago and simply declared just under 16 hours per week (I have different sources of income: private tutoring; some not always regular admin work for a couple of companies; bits & bobs I sell on the Internet and the very occasional gig as a musician)
BUT, I actually put in about up to 18-20 hours of work if I take into account the time to prepare lessons, homework, send emails/text, answering phone calls, checking website, post office runs etc.

I've never kept a diary (I tried but it was tricky to keep it up) but if I did, would it be reasonable to include the time it takes me to prepare for the hours of work, e.g. lesson plans, homework, emails/text, going to post office to post things sold, et all? Because that is work that I'm not being paid for and it takes quite a chunk of my week.
What should a typical diary be like for WTC purposes that they would be happy with (if they were to look into my hours of work)?
Would it be time for me to get an accountant... I'm really stressed and confused ... ?

BigAunty

bubbleoflife wrote: »

Can someone elucidate, please, on working out the hours of work in self-employment because I'm really confused on this one ...

I've never kept a diary (I tried but it was tricky to keep it up) but if I did, would it be reasonable to include the time it takes me to prepare for the hours of work, e.g. lesson plans, homework, emails/text, going to post office to post things sold, et all? Because that is work that I'm not being paid for and it takes quite a chunk of my week.

What should a typical diary be like for WTC purposes that they would be happy with (if they were to look into my hours of work)?
Would it be time for me to get an accountant... I'm really stressed and confused ... ?

Here is a thread from someone self employed who has been asked to provide more information to the HMRC.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3733979

Type of work you do and or the nature of your business
Summary / diary of bookings and / or appointments you have made
Copies of advertisements placed
A breakdown of hours worked per week
Invoices for any work done
Receipts for any expenses paid
Details of any vehicles (provide registration documents) and tools used in your business
Insurance documents for vehicles
Details of any trade or business qualifications

It is probably best for you to find the HMRC guidance itself rather than rely on informal advice given by others on a forum. See their info on the type of records required and what qualifies as renumerative work.

Remember there is two elements to working tax credits - the records you need to submit a tax return (basic financial book keeping on income and expenses) and the evidence you need to prove you qualify for tax credits, proof that you are meeting the x number of hours threshold (which will come in handy if the HMRC ever challenge the award which they frequently do).

BigAunty

Here is some guidance on what activities can be included for working tax credit hours. You will need to check if they are still currently accurate advice.

****************

If you're self-employed
Put down the number of hours you normally spend working in your business, either on work billed to the client or related activity, for example:

• trips to wholesalers and retailers
• visits to potential clients
• time spent on advertising
• cleaning the business premises
• cleaning a vehicle used as part of the business, for example a taxi
• book-keeping
• research work

If you work from home, include time spent travelling to see customers.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/claiming/income-hours/work-out-hours.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ccmmanual/ccm6755.htm

http://www.cpag.org.uk/scotland/taxcredits/tax_credits_selfemployment_7.htm#work

zagfles

BigAunty wrote: »

but I believe that if you get housing benefit and council tax rebate, that could increase because they are based on income. Perhaps someone can confirm?

Yes HB & CTB are assessed on income including tax credits so if the OP gets HB/CTB and tax credit drop then HB & CTB will increase. Won't make up for the drop in tax credits completely but will make up for some of it. Also possibly free school meals, if income below about £15k.

BigAunty

bubbleoflife wrote: »

...

I've never kept a diary (I tried but it was tricky to keep it up)

Why tricky?

Perhaps can find or make a Word or Excel template structured in diary or time-sheet format and adapt it for your needs, perhaps on the Microsoft template section.

Or find some free software (timekeeping software), also known as 'shareware' for free stuff.

Or populate an online calendar, such as Outlook, google or similar with your activities and appointments and print off a copy each week?

Perhaps you can ask on the small business forum for advice on how you can easily record a diary that will satisfy a potential HMRC inspection?

Charityworker

Well today I bought a diary from Poundland and started writing a diary of what I do in my self employment. The WTC haven't asked me to provide any evidence but I want to be prepared incase they do. My days mainly consist of looking in charity shops for vintage/costume jewellery then selling it for double the cost at craft/antique fairs at the weekend. I probably spend about 7 hours a week doing the searching and 4 hours at a fair and an hour travelling to the fair and back again. Can I add all this up as time?

BigAunty

Charityworker wrote: »

.. I probably spend about 7 hours a week doing the searching and 4 hours at a fair and an hour travelling to the fair and back again. Can I add all this up as time?

I'm not really sure anyone here could advise you. Perhaps you are better off asking HMRC or finding specific wording on their site or a specialist self employment forum? Come back and tell us their response.

Charityworker

BigAunty wrote: »

I'm not really sure anyone here could advise you. Perhaps you are better off asking HMRC or finding specific wording on their site or a specialist self employment forum? Come back and tell us their response.

Well in the end I phoned them (using phone at work ) and they said there isn't really any way in which you can prove how many hours you have worked. How can you prove how long you researched suppliers for or how long you spent out looking for stock? So she advised me to carry on with the diary and keep it very meticulous and up to date. But at the end of the day who's to stop you saying you worked 30 hours when you only worked 10? She also said, in her own words not mine, that at some point every small business owner will be watched the same as people claiming DLA are :eek: Honesty is the best policy with this one.

Sixer

HMRC use risk assessment software to highlight potential misreporting of income and/or hours worked.

If your self assessment doesn't link to a 30-hour element tax credit claim then the fact that your income is low means you're less likely to be thrown up by the risk assessment software.

On the other hand, if you're self-employed AND you're reporting tuppence in profits AND you claim the 30-hour element of WTC AND you're the only earner in the household (attached to the tax credit claim) then the risk assessment software will shout OUCH! and an investigation may be triggered. This is the point when they start asking people to prove what they're saying in their self-assessments.

So if you're reporting 11-15 hours, OP, it's unlikely you'll be singled out. HMRC do some random checking, but they're under pressure and short-staffed, so your chances of being chosen for a random check are very small.