Insurance increased because of undeclared incidents

mel19632

So before anyone "leaps" on me - let me explain!

We have had three non fault accidents (two people drove up the back of us and someone drove into our poor stationery car).

I am adament that I noted these down when I took out the insurance back in January 2011 but i received a letter from the insruance company stating that they were charging us £260 (insurance for year was £360) due to non-disclosed incidents. When I rang they said that they had found out about the accidents and therefore for the year January to December 2011 our insurance was going up by £160 and for the current year, £100 but they would reduce it to £60.

i am 100% sure that i noted it down on comparison website (mainly because i didnt think it would affect our premiums and therefore i had no reason to hide it!) and I have noticed that on the proof of no claims certificate that i sent in, it also states the dates and details of the accidents (as they all occured prior to taking out the insurance in january 2011).

where do i stand with this? do i swallow it as i should have checked the documents (i admit i didnt because i assumed (i know!) that they would be as per the details I had put into the comparison website) or do i fight it as they should have been aware when thy checked the no claims proof? or do i try and take it up with the comparison website (which i need to remember which one it is...)

I am really annoyed but i suppose it may be completely my fault.

Any thoughts?

mel19632

also i should note that we didnt have any accidents during 2011 and I dont really understand how they can back date an insurance policy which has already ceased.

Quentin

When you first got the policy they would have asked you to check it was correct. Your history should be shown (usually against "driver details", where your personal details/illnesses/claims etc will be noted)

If they aren't there, then they won't have charged you the correct premium, and you do owe them the "back money" too.

FlameCloud

They can ask for any increased premium as a result of non disclosure because the price would have been different had they known- if they are asking for it and you refuse they are unlikely to go away.

Do you have any quotes sent through from the comparison website to check over? Or any of the the confirmations through after the purchase? It will say on that what the disclosures were.

vaio

they will argue that you were a higher risk because of the undeclared accidents so the premium for 10-11 would have been higher had they known. As they (unknowingly) carried the higher risk they should be paid for that, same applies to 11-12.

You should argue that they were informed via both the comparison web site and also via the NCB document you sent in. They'll no doubt respond that you should have checked your documents but exactly the same applies to them re the NCB discount document.

If the other parties responsible for the accidents were identified then I'd also argue that these premium loadings are a consequential cost that can be recovered from them

lisyloo

If you do insurance DIY then you are responsible for making sure all the admin is correct.
Unfortunately comparison sites do pass over data wrongly sometimes.
I don't think you will have any luck here because even if it was wrong the argument will be that it was your responsibility to check everything was correct.
If you don't want to do this admin then use a professional broker, but if you go DIY it's your responsibility.

I agree that you should try claiming back any premium loading to the individuals who were found liable.
Some people on here say you can't do that, but I checked it out legally with professionals and I believe you can (there may well be an argument about this now).

vaio

lisyloo wrote: »

If you do insurance DIY then you are responsible for making sure all the admin is correct.
Unfortunately comparison sites do pass over data wrongly sometimes.
I don't think you will have any luck here because even if it was wrong the argument will be that it was your responsibility to check everything was correct.
If you don't want to do this admin then use a professional broker, but if you go DIY it's your responsibility.

I agree that you should try claiming back any premium loading to the individuals who were found liable.
Some people on here say you can't do that, but I checked it out legally with professionals and I believe you can (there may well be an argument about this now).

I don't think that's what the FOS say, I thought their view was that if insurers use comparison sites then the insurer are responsible for making sure all the required info gets transferred also, surely the insurance company is equally if not more culpable for not reading the NCB letter the OP sent?

I've just renewed and I'm pretty sure (will check tonight and update if necessary) my new policy doesn't mention two claims a named driver has on her record (both on her own car) and I'm 100% certain I put them in on the webs site. It might be that some companies don't print named driver claims in the policy documents or it might be that some companies don't print claims at all so as a mere punter how am I expected to know the difference between a company that has wrongly omitted the claims and a company that doesn't print them at all?

My view is that the proposal I submit forms the basis of the contact and I don't really see why I should have any responsibility for checking that the insurance company has correctly transferred all the information I gave them from the proposal to the policy particularly as there is lots of info in the proposal that doesn't appear in the policy (but is I assume used in setting the premium). As above, how am i expected to know the difference between an omitted important detail and a detail that is omitted because it's considered unimportant?

My responsibility is to make sure I honestly answer all the questions on the proposal, the insurers responsibility is to make sure they include all the relevant proposal answers in setting my premium. I expect to carry the can if I get answers on the proposal wrong and I expect the insurer to carry the can if they don't use the answers properly.

lisyloo

I thought their view was that if insurers use comparison sites then the insurer are responsible for making sure all the required info gets transferred also

Does this entitled you to a price that's wrong? I don't think it does.
At the very least the insurer has rights to cancel unilaterally so you are not entitled to the price for the whole contract.

As above, how am i expected to know the difference between an omitted important detail and a detail that is omitted because it's considered unimportant?

It's a good question, but wrong information is not the same as ommitted. So if it says "claims: None" then that would be incorrect and not ommittted.

and I expect the insurer to carry the can if they don't use the answers properly

I'd be interested to know if you have any links/evidence to say otherwise, but I don't believe they are bound by an incorrect price for the duration. Itwould be lovely if the world was like that and they had "honour".
I believe they have rights to cancel.

vaio

I don't think it's a matter of honour, more to do with contract law.

If I quote a customer to do a job or perform a service then I'm bound by that quote. If I've missed something or underestimated the costs then i have to carry the can, if they have mislead me as the the extent of the job then we can charge extra.

We only deal with other businesses so our T&C can exclude consequential costs if we fail to perform our contractual duties but if you deal with consumers you can't exclude consequential costs and any attempt to do so is automatically deemed unfair and unenforceable.

I don't know of any reason why an insurance quote is any different (but happy to be corrected with references), if the insurance company, not having been mislead in any way price it wrongly then they need to absorb that. If they then choose to cancel rather than adsorb the loss they should be liable for any consequential costs.

Furthermore, given the effect that having a cancelled policy on your record has on future premiums, I'd fully expect the FOS to instruct them to un-cancel any policy cancelled in those circumstances.

Contract law is well established and I can't see why an insurance contract is any different to buying a washing machine or employing a builder to renovate a house

BoGoF

My advice to anyone who uses price comparision sites is to re-check every screen. The information can and does change when transferred from the comparison site to the insurers.

Surely the contract isn't formed until you have clicked through the insurers site and clicked accept. Before you get to that stage you have a summary of what you have entered. The onus is on you to make sure that data is correct.

lisyloo

The legal arguments are all very interesting but without a consensus I think we ought to help the OP :-)

I think Mel should formally complain to the insurer stating the information was input AND it was on the NCD notice. There should be a formal complaints procedure on the website or in the policy documentation.
Are there any email details available in your inbox?

Without any evidence then it's clearly your word against theirs on the input side (but not on the NCD).

Personally I think if people are sent a contract and asked to check it then they should. There are so many details it's possible for the consumer to make a mistake.
I always check important details very carefully and for important stuff I often ask my OH to check too.