Tenancy agreement/Move-in date

ever

My last post is https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3737067

My new landlord is coming around tomorrow to redo the tenancy agreement, however she has also dropped the bomb that the house is "taking longer than she thought" to finish. I signed the agreement on Dec. 31 after being told it would be finished in 4 weeks. I gave my landlord 5 weeks' notice so there would be an extra week for the new house to be finished, but now the new landlord thinks it won't be done by then.

What should I have put in the tenancy agreement to protect myself regarding my move-in date so I don't get strung along? I'm meant to be out of my current house on Feb. 4 and that's the date the new tenancy is meant to start and will be the listed start date on the new agreement. Do I need to have them put anything special about it being ready by then, or is it implied by the contract and date that the house will be liveable on the day the tenancy starts? (Yet to be done is new kitchen worktop, painting, carpets, bathroom suite, gardens.) What is my recourse if come February 4 it's not done?

She mentioned something about perhaps having the upstairs finished and ready while they continued to work on downstairs, and I told her that may be a possibility but I would not be paying full-rate rent if that was the case. I think it surprised her but she relented to that if it comes to pass. Any advice is very much appreciated! To recap, this is a private landlord, no letting agency.

G_M

Giving notice on current home before you have aranged new home is rash. You could be homeless!

The tenancy agreement you sign should have a start date on it. That gives you certainty. If subsequently ' it won't be done by then.' you move into a B&B or basic hotel and send the bill to your landlord. LL refuses to pay. You take LL to court for breach of contract. Judge orders LL to pay.

that's how contracts work. You agree to pay rent from x date and LL agrees to provide accomodation from x date. If either side defaults, they can be sued.

The difficulty might arise if the LL gives you the keys on x date despite the work not being finished, and expects you to live with builders on site. You can, of course, deny them access to 'your home', but then you have no finished kitchen /whatever.

You could, of course, add a (handwritten?) clause to the contract specifying what work is to be completed before the tenancy starts, but this would need counter-signing by the LL - and I doubt you'll get agreement!

Given the history, I would not be progressing with this LL.

ever

I gave my notice after signing a new tenancy agreement. The tenancy agreement on the new place says Dec. 31, which is the day I paid deposit, but not the day I'm moving in, obviously, as the new landlord said it'd be 4 weeks from then. On the original tenancy agreement, I did write in that it's all contingent on the work being finished, which she signed, and I intend to write that on the new contract as well with Feb. 4 down as the date, which she agreed to.

If she signs the clause on the agreement that it will be finished and able to be moved into on Feb. 4 and it's not, do I have any recourse as far as paying reduced rent? She's agreed to that already, but I'm just wondering what kind of reach I would have if, for instance, it's NOT liveable on Feb. 4 (thinking in terms of where to put all my furniture and things! My ex would allow me and our children to stay with him rather than be homeless, so would I be able to bill my new landlord for storing all my stuff somewhere in the meantime?)

G_M

ever wrote: »

.......The tenancy agreement on the new place says Dec. 31, which is the day I paid deposit, but not the day I'm moving in,
Is Dec 31st the date it was signed? Or the tenancy start date?

I can't be bothered to go back and check your original thread (why start a new one?) but if the tenancy was due to start on Dec 31, and was signed by both you and LL, then LL had a contractual duty to give you the keys on.... Dec 31st! Failure to do so means you can claim your consequential costs as expalianed above eg a hotel in place of the property you contracted to live in
obviously, as the new landlord said it'd be 4 weeks from then. what she says/said is irrelevant. The date she contracted to give you a tenancy is what matters

On the original tenancy agreement, I did write in that it's all contingent on the work being finished, which she signed, Further grounds for a legal claim and I intend to write that on the new contract as well with Feb. 4 down as the date, which she agreed to.

If she signs the clause on the agreement that it will be finished and able to be moved into on Feb. 4 and it's not, do I have any recourse as far as paying reduced rent?
Why are you signing a new tenancy agreement? You already have one! If you are simply going to tear up each agreement and replace it each time the LL defaults there's not much point signing them at all!
She's agreed to that already, but I'm just wondering what kind of reach I would have if, for instance, it's NOT liveable on Feb. 4
already aswered. But if you're not goig to enforce the current agreeement, why is this replacement one any different?
(thinking in terms of where to put all my furniture and things! OK - add the cost of storage to the hotel bills you calim. And the removal costs. And hotel meals as you have no cooking facilities...My ex would allow me and our children to stay with him rather than be homeless, so would I be able to bill my new landlord for storing all my stuff somewhere in the meantime?)

As said before, tis LL is already a nightmare, and will continue to be so. Even if/when the work is finished, and you move in, I can guarantee you'll be back here reporting problems getting repairs done, or a gas certificate or.... or....

ever

The tenancy was never due to start on Dec. 31. That was the date I gave the deposit and signed the agreement. The line to fill in for the date that the deposit was given is the same line that asks for the date the tenancy starts. Dec. 31 was put down as the date for the deposit, and the reason we're scrapping this agreement and doing a fresh one is because that's not the accurate date for moving in, which is Feb. 4. I'm still in my current house and needed to give my landlord min. 4 weeks' notice, so having the agreement at the new house wouldn't have needed to start Dec. 31 anyway.

I think you misunderstand why we're scrapping the old agreement. We mutually had the wrong date on the original: the date the deposit was paid is Dec. 31, but it was simply a mistake that we both didn't realize that it should have been written Feb. 4 on that part. The new agreement will have the tenancy start date as February 4. I'm asking what happens if Feb. 4 rolls around and the house is not ready. I'm assuming that, based on your reply, the answer is the same, just with a working date of Feb. 4 instead of Dec. 31.

BitterAndTwisted

If you decide to sign another agreement with a different start-date and the property is not ready for occupation then you need to get a written agreement from your LL dated and signed by both parties that the rent does not become due until the day you do. That also needs to be acknowledged in writing later once that date has been confirmed. There is a danger for the landlord as has been pointed out, that once you have a valid rental-agreement with a start-date and the landlord cannot offer you this property then they become liable for any alternative accommodation you can find in the meantime.

If the worst comes to the worst, you could decide to try and negotiate with your current landlord to defer your leaving-date. That may not please anyone, especially if they have made arrangements to sign up another tenant.

ever

Okay, I've just printed 2 copies of the following with places for both of us to sign and date:

This letter is to confirm that rent will not be due until the day that the rental house, [address redacted], is completely suitable and ready for occupation. Upon the tenant's being able to physically take up occupation of the house once all interior and exterior work (carpeting, painting, fittings, etc.) is complete, rent will become due, payable calendar monthly at £515 as per the tenancy agreement.

Obviously I'm not good at legalese, but will this suffice? Her car is outside (it's the house next door), so I suspect she'll be here any minute I actually did bite the bullet and speak to my current landlord and she's happy for me to stay on a bit longer (paying for it of course) if necessary, so thankfully I do have a back-up if it becomes necessary.

BitterAndTwisted

Legalese isn't always necessary where the intention of both parties and their obligation to each other is clear. I think your letter is fine. Only taking it to court would provide definitive confirmation in any case. And with luck, you won't need to

ever

Thanks very much! I'm hopefully just being over-cautious, but my experience with private landlords so far hasn't been great, so I figure it's better to cover my behind for any scenario I can think of!

G_M

ever wrote: »

Okay, I've just printed 2 copies of the following with places for both of us to sign and date:

This letter is to confirm that rent will not be due until the day that the rental house, [address redacted], is completely suitable and ready for occupation. Upon the tenant's being able to physically take up occupation of the house once all interior and exterior work (carpeting, painting, fittings, etc.) is complete, rent will become due, payable calendar monthly at £515 as per the tenancy agreement.

Obviously I'm not good at legalese, but will this suffice? Her car is outside (it's the house next door), so I suspect she'll be here any minute .

As Bitter says, legalese isn't required. A clear unambigous statement is.

I would tighten up the definition of

completely suitable and ready for occupation.

Your definition of this may not be the same as the Landlord's!

once all interior and exterior work (carpeting, painting, fittings, etc.) is complete

is a good start, but you need to list every item you expect to be complete. Using 'etc' is meaningless!

ever

Thank you for the input! Would adding something along these lines be preferable?

(including but not limited to carpeting throughout house, all bathroom fittings, painting throughout, all kitchen fittings and worktop, heating units, boiler system, radiators, flooring, plastering/skimming, electrical wiring)

I'm not sure what all else in the house still needs doing-- have I left off anything I ought to have on there just in case? As far as I know right now, it needs cleaning, painting, carpeting (which she has already ordered and seen), the new bathroom suite installing (which has been ordered), and the new kitchen worktop (also already bought) put in. When the lady comes around later to do the agreement, I'm going to ask if I can walk through with her again just to see the progress.