Inaccurate Penalty Fare

Stigy

vax2002 wrote: »

It is a contract which can be served as a contract of confession, it will have a worded section "I understand (agree to stand under this statement) that the details are correct.

You are signing to accept the notice as true and correct, I agree. You are not however admitting to committing an offence (as with all penalty notices), even though the notice wouldn't have been issued if no offence had been committed. That's what I meant by it's not a confession. Livingthedream is correct about it being a civil remedy fo a criminal offence. Non-payment would mean the TOC would cancel the notice and proceed with the original Byelaw breached, in the Mags court.

Livingthedream

NickL78 wrote: »

livingthedream knows where I am coming from!

Well I think I know where you coming from but from reading my own posts again your trying to take them on from 2 different angles;

1. The incorrect filled out PFN.
2. You've now found your misplaced ticket.

Trying to appeal these at same time could be counterproductive, my personal opinion is one or the other. I feel appealing on the 'misplaced ticket' has better chance of been upheld, also as well send a letter to ICRAS send a carbon copy to NEXUS, you could for greater impact google the MD of NEXUs and send it to him.

Customer Services
Nexus
Grainger Chambers
Hood Street
Newcastle on Tyne NE1 6JQ

HO87

@OP The issue you have is that some errors have been made in the way in which the PF has been completed. They are errors which are capable of being easily corrected and are obvious (the time for one). If you wish to continue challenging the penalty fare then the you are likely to be summonsed for the bye-law offence (as Stigy has pointed out). In those circumstances the PF effectively becomes an irrelevance as the prosecution will be based on a witness statement provided by the Inspector and the notes he has recorded not the PF.

The offence is commited when you fail to produce a valid ticket to an authorised person not because you didn't have one. The fact that you had a valid ticket but had misplaced it is reasonable mitigation but even then is likely to be met with the response that as you were travelling on the Metro you should have exercised greater care in the way you handled your ticket. The only facts that the TOC will need to prove is that you were travelling, that the Inspector is an authorised person and that you failed to produce the ticket when requested - something, presumably, you would not take issue with?

On conviction you will be liable for a means based fine, costs (as this will be prosecuted by the TOC and not the CPS then the costs will be higher. CPS costs vary slightly based on where in the country you are but for an early guilty plea usually fall into the £43-£85 bracket) and the inevitable victim support levy of £15. My advice would be to pay the PF and put it down to experience.

vax2002

Livingthedream wrote: »

An interesting point, but I've never known a PFN to be used that way, as in theory it's a civil matter rather than criminal. .

How things like this can be used, is that anything you sign can be produced as evidence.
Where evidence of a signature is required the courts play a real dirty trick, one that only the public ever fall for, they ask you to "sign in" at court, nobody else gets asked to "sign in" then they bring the signing sheet in to the court and compare it to the signature on whatever you signed, TV licensing use this trick all the time, so do council tax fake courts and similar cases where verifying a signature is required.
Those in the know , just mark a X on the sheet.

taffy056

tvlicensingblog wrote: »

It's an oft-quoted myth that mistakes on parking tickets/FPNs/penalty fare notices etc. render them immediately invalid. They do not. If you committed the crime then pay up and stop looking for technicalities to wriggle out of it.

Very good advice that, so we shouldn't argue any point, we should pay up on any demand, and we shouldn't ask for any money saving advice on a website called money saving expert , think I better tell Martin to close the website immediately because of your suggestion !

Can I ask though why did you join a money saving website if not to save money ?

Coupon-mad

tvlicensingblog wrote: »

It's an oft-quoted myth that mistakes on (parking tickets)/FPNs/penalty fare notices etc. render them immediately invalid. They do not. If you committed the crime then pay up and stop looking for technicalities to wriggle out of it.

Not true of Council and other non-Police issued parking tickets.

There's no 'crime' involved with decriminalised parking enforcement and car reg and other important mistakes on their (Council) PCNs ARE fatal to the enforcement of the PCN! And of course there's never any reason to take a fake PCN from any private company seriously at all, didn't want people to get confused.

Just wanted to set the record straight as parking tickets are simply not in the same bracket as fixed penalties.

timbo58

Vax2002 is correct in his advice.

The mistakes on the PFN do not make it invalid themselves as you signed it as correct.
If you don't pay it then it'll go to Magistrates court and if you don't attend and prove it wrong then it'll be found as correct and a fine issued.

However, if you feel you have evidence which brings into doubt this PFNs validity then write politely to the TOCs customer service department who will pass on your instruction to the investigations department, most revenue control managers will happily cancel a PFN if they believe a case will fail in court.

However please bear in mind the ticketing conditions will state something along the lines of 'must show when asked a valid ticket' -i.e. it's no use finding a valid ticket later as you have failed to satisfy the byelaw concerned.

A bloke asked me many years ago: is that a new law then?
It was in 1889 I said!

(ex inspector manager for a leading ToC and RP staff for 15 years).

taffy056

tvlicensingblog wrote: »

Ask if you like.
It wasn't to condone people fare dodging to save a few quid.

Perhaps if you read the thread in its entirety you'd understand that the OP mislaid his ticket and couldn't find it! So not fare dodging !

And this website is for advice, so perhaps before judging people you should look at the ethos of this website, and why it was setup!

Martin_Lewis wrote:

I didn't set up MSE to be personally judgemental, but to help people whatever their circumstances.