Insurance offer far too low. What approach can I do/should I take? - Kitchen works

QfanatiQ

After some serious issues, we have had a leek detected and fixed.

This damaged the kitchen and mean part of it had to be removed to repair the works. Noting damage to units behind.

As this was a communal part, this has been initially dealt with by the Management Company for the property.

We have just received the letter of offer. The insures have said yes to the repair quote and offered a few thousand for the kitchen (appliances to be retained). I have been told to now deal with the insurance 1-2-1

Our kitchen is U shaped and all appliances are built in.
I have got three different quotes firstly based on the cabinets only. So far this nearly comes to three times the amount being offered (gone to Howdens - Wickes - B&Q), I have chosen middle of the range and chosen such items on a like for like basis.

It was also noted by the contractor, the floor will be spoilt and needs repair and the tiles have been damaged and not abel to be retained.

1. With built in appliances (and generally) should it not be a like for like replacement?
2. How do I go about getting a decent figure that covers kitchen, wall tiles and floor tiles?

3. is it not the responsibility of the managing agents to deal with this rather than asking me to object to anything?

I really feel I am on the back foot here and have no idea how to move forward.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

I have recently seen the two quotes that went to the insurance. They are not equal in terms of what has been priced. Quote puzzled, no help or desire by management company to offer any kind of explanation. The insurance has ok’d the lower fee but this does not cover all works noted as needing to be done. As this is communal, am I able to discuss with the insurance the possibility to properly get three quotes done on a exact like for like basis?

As the pipe was communal, have the management agency not got an obligation to get like for like quotes and keep the house owner involved to contractors quoting for works to be done in my property?

---

This may or may not be relevant -

Before we discovered the leak, we did get a estate agent around as we were (are) looking to sell. I have dated paper work to show this. I have since contacted the estate agent and enquired, if a new kitchen with existing appliances would be ok. He has expressed, it is not going to be an issue as properties are sort after, but it will effect the price slightly as any new buyer will look at it, with the thought of needing to replace old appliances within a fully fitted kitchen (so more works rather than just slide out and replace) and has strongly recommended replacing all appliances.

InsideInsurance

Who's insurance are you claiming on?
Who provided the quote to the insurers for your kitchen repairs?

1 - built in appliances normally are able to be built into any kitchen by changing the doors attached to them, if they werent damaged in the flooding I wouldnt expect them to be replaced

2 - depends on further info

3 - depends on the circumstances and liability but generally not, it is normally the claimants responsibility to demonstrate their losses and negotiate settlement


What was quoted for in what the insurers looked at? What have they excluded from the quote? Why have they excluded what they have?

The most obvious thing that springs to mind is one of two things:

1) Matched Sets - most policies do not include cover for matched sets and so if you lose/break one of a set you only get the settlement for that one not for the replacement of all of the set. So in a kitchen you would only get payment for the damaged units, tiles, flooring etc not the whole lot though the FOS normally make insurers contribute 50% to replacing the remainder upon complaint. This only counts if you are claiming off the policy as a first party, if you are claiming off the policy as a third party then its more complex.

2) Trace & Access - again only if you are the first party, this is something that is frequently not covered in standard policies so damage caused by the flood is covered, damage caused to get to fix the problem isnt (in a nut shell)

dacouch

Were all the kitchen units damaged?

QfanatiQ

We live in a block of flats.

We are claiming through the buildings insurance - handled by the property managment company. Not our ploicy by name, but we pay for it in part of our yearly service charge.

It is unkown how many units are damaged as not all have been removed - only locally near the leak. I think safe to say, they will NOT all be damaged.

The management company provided two quotes for repairs. One of the companies never visited the property and when reading these quotes, you soon see they have quoted for different works.

I always understood there may be an uplift from us (if we desired and could afford new appliances). Following on from conversations with the managment company it was understood all units are being replaced along with worktop, floor and wall tiles.

Cheers.....Q

QfanatiQ

After a bit more investigation. I learn that it is pendant on the insurance policy to how certain things are dealt with and covered.

As it stands, happy to try and make any uplift, but do not have anywhere near the extra cash to make it up.

I have been informed the management of the flats have a "duty of care" to put us back in the same position as before the damage occured.

The quotes talk about taking cabinets, floor tiles and wall tiles off and discarding. So the insurance has ok'd new ones by proxy of agreeing to works needing to discard.

Insurance gives full money for wall repairs and 4k towards kitchen. I have priced cabinets only at three different places and getting 12-13.5k for a like for like. Tiles (wall and floor) have not been priced.

It is this shear difference I am struggling with. I cannot afford to make up the difference anywhere near this. I am extremely concerned what we will end up with or how much longer this will continue for.

I naively expected a full new kitchen. After learning of policy and how things are done, I thought, well new cabinets, floor and walls is damn near good enough and I will source appliances at my own cost. However the figures and corospondace and liaising between management company, us and loss adjustor simply does not add up.

Cheers……Q

InsideInsurance

As per my first message, if they are liable then they are responsible for putting you back in the same situation, ie a complete and matching kitchen (though not necessarily a brand new one!) but it is often very hard in these sorts of circumstances to show they are liable (assuming it is a similar sort of set up to the classic leak from upstairs flat brings down your ceiling etc).

At present it sounds like its being handled as a direct claim off the policy with you being the first party (ie the insured) rather than a claim against the management companies liability insurance with you therefore being a third party. The difference between the two is the former the settlement is based on what the policy terms are (eg matching sets as per my original post) and the later is what the management company would pay you if you took them to court (ie it is policy wording agnostic)

Evidently a big part of the problem at the moment is an unrealistic quote was submitted on your behalf. Have you also gone back to that company to ask them how they'd achieve all the work for the sum they quoted given the other sums you have gotten?

Max_Planck

How many kitchen cabinets are the quotes for? I know you say the quotes are cabinets only but the amount you are being quoted seems very high (I use to work for Magnet kitchens a few years back).

rs65

QfanatiQ wrote: »

I have been informed the management of the flats have a "duty of care" to put us back in the same position as before the damage occured.

The management company will have a duty of care to do what you pay them to do - which is probably managing the building. They may manage the repair process but I doubt it is their duty to put you back in the same position. Anyway, is it not better if you get to deal direct with the insurers rather than through another party.

ps If the appliances weren't damage, the insurers won't replace them.

QfanatiQ

Some good info there.

I guess I just need to know how to argue my point to get a decent figure.

My concerns still stand as -
. No choice in contractor put forward and workmanship questionable to date
. How to get a fair figure for cabinets and tiles

As it is a communal pipe (soil stack). As residents, we pay the management company to manage the insurance purchase (buildings). This is coming of the buildings insurance, not ours. I have been advised by legal advice, as they manage the building, it is thier responsibility to put me back in a complete form.

As it stands, they have got their preferred contractor to price for everything, even fitting the kitchen so it appears this is the case, rather than offering me to go get quotes for kitchen and fitting after repairs done. This means I do not get the 2 years workmanship guarantee that all the high-street shops offer when fitting.

I know as the appliances are not damaged these will not be replaced. I am happy if i have enough money to make up the difference.

I do not mind talking direct to the insurance company. But want to know what I am entitled to and be able to put my actions across in a fair and reasonable way

The money offered for the kitchen is titled as just that. It is to cover Cabinets, Floor Tiles and Wall Tiles. I have deduced this as the contractors quote lists, take all cabinets of and dispose of, take wall tiles of and dispose of, take floor tiles of.... Also taking off dry lining and repair to as much floor as needed (not all walls completely).

I have found floor tiles that look exactly as what I already have, but these work out at £100mSq, even I baulk at this figure and I do not like these tiles. Do i put these forward and then change? Thats a £650 for tiles, never mind adhesive etc. Wall tiles are typical small white glazed with a mid boarder, easy to match.

Cheers.....Q

QfanatiQ

This is one of those life challenges. It appears the insurance Loss Adjustor never works in the office and is only on the phone as e-mails come back.

Been near two weeks trying to contact him.

I am very disheartened on how long this is taking just to talk to people.

Is there anything else I can do to speed up the process? The 31.10.11 seems a long time back now.

Q